The Salesman | Asghar Farhadi

[Paul Malcolm:] Was there a particular beginning for this film? Did it start with Arthur Miller? Did start with Sa'edi? Or was it the combination of the two that you felt were important to bring together? [Asghar Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] If I were to speak about Sa'edi and Arthur Miller, the only thing I would have to say is that the weight that Sa'edi carries in our country is equivalent to the weight that Arthur Miller carries in the United States. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And their belief systems also resembled each other. They were both left-leaning. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] They're both writers that I respect and both of them have influenced me a great deal. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] I'm very pleased that you referred to Sa'edi because it's very rare for these - this generation of writers from my country to be recognized abroad. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And when I say that Sa'edi has the same weight as Arthur Miller, it is no exaggeration. Uh, I am a - and it's not because I'm an Iranian. I was a student of literature, and I do know his work. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] What both writers have in common is that they have a great deal of empathy and compassion for the characters they write. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] But as to the question of where the film began, it did not begin with either of those two. I have been wanting for a long time to go back and work in the theater. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] But the fact that the opportunity just would not present itself, ended up leading me to work on a screenplay that could be related to the theater. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] I am sure the question of why I chose "Death of a Salesman" will come up and I will explain in that regard, but I can in brief, right now, explain to you about why I chose Sa'edi. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] When I realized that the lead character was a teacher, I had this constant anxiety that he would be this cliché character standing in a classroom, explaining and the students listening, and this was not something that sat well with me. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] I started to read my daughter's school books. She's about the same age as the students in the film. Until I got to her literature book and I saw the story. [Interpreter whispering:] What's the title? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] "The Mourners of Bayal" which is the one story on which the cow is based. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] This to me was a gift. I started to ask my daughter, "When your teacher taught you this that day in class, what kind of questions were asked?" [Farhadi, in Persian] [audience laughs] [Interpreter:] And my daughter reported a lot of the questions that her fellow students had asked in, in class that day. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] One of the most important questions is that one of the students - that one of the students had asked the teacher that day was, "How does a human being turn into a cow?" Because the story of the transformation of a human being into a cow is a significant part of this story. [Farhadi, in Persian] [audience laughs] [Interpreter:] But the answer were - the answer is gradually. That was not the teacher's answer, but I added that in. [Malcom:] Well, turning to cinematic references, two directors that you've referenced in relation to "The Salesman" in interviews, but critics bring up a lot, are Hitchcock and I think Kiarastami. And one of the things that, when I think about your work in relation to Hitchcock, I think about you - the Hitchcock of ethics or the Hitchcock of morality, but even more to the point, the Hitchcock of the everyday. The way an, an encounter between two people that might seem simple, that might seem innocuous can become, can open up a very complex set of relationships, that, um, I mean, has its own elements of suspense and, but really speaks to, you know, the difficulty of just living through the day sometimes. And... how do you think of yourself as a suspense director or in relation to the everyday? Which Kiarastami might be an influence on that. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] I think I had spoken about this subject previously at the AFI and somehow it had been retransmitted incorrectly. So I'm very pleased to be able to speak about it again. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] The way it had been retold was that I had said that I'd made "The Salesman" inspired by Hitchcock and Kiarastami. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] That is not how it is, but I would like to say, um, what the influences were right now. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Um, what I mean, is that in Hitchcock's work, what is most significant and that is admired universally is storytelling and drama. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And the suspense that the audience experiences and then beyond that, the psychological dimension of the characters. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] But it's rare for us in Hitchcock's films, to see the ordinary daily lives of people of his period. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] When we see his films, they're very attractive to us, but we can't know what the people of that period were preoccupied with on a daily basis. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] On the other hand in Iranian Cinema, we have filmmakers like Abbas Kiarastami and Sohrab Shahid-Saless, which, it's strange to say, are neither of them with us anymore and they could be and they could be working. And, what is unique about their work is that they... [Interpreter whispers to Farhadi] [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Capture - capture daily life, completely. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] What I've tried to do in my cinema is to combine these two things: the suspense of Hitchcock and the reality and daily life of these other filmmakers. These are two things that seem like they'd be irreconcilable, but I've tried, I've striven to have them in my work. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And in this way, I've attempted to have the dramas that take shape be the product of what seem like almost unimportant, mundane, ordinary events. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] One can easily see how "The Salesman" would not have ha- that the story of "The Salesman" would not have happened if that lady Rana had not picked up the intercom or had picked up the intercom and listened to who it was, rather than just let someone in. So this tiny event turns into a major drama. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And the last thing I'd say, which you may want to think about later, is that when we say realism or reality - when we say reality in the East, in my country, it means one thing and, in say Italy, it can mean something else. [Malcolm:] I also think about that everyday moment in the cab ride where the woman accuses the teacher of inappropriately touching her in the backseat, an everyday encounter in the way you frame the shot. We hear her, but we never see her. He is very tightly enclosed in the back of that space. That's an everyday moment that also seems to be in terms of realism, it also has this extra element of like portents. It almost seems to be setting his future on a certain path because it's adjusted his mind set, his sense of being in the world, but it's an everyday moment. I - I'm wondering when you, when you're finding these everyday moments which become kind of linchpins in the story, when did they emerge? Are they in the story - in the script? Or did they emerge in the editing? I'm just curious where these little moments come from. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Let me just explain something, right before, which may open up a new discussion. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] When we say, um, daily life does it mean something other than the things that are repetitive and seem not to have any particular value? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] I'm gonna give you an example just to show how there are many layers in ordinary life, but up until the moment, we're in a very unique set of circumstances, we're not aware of them. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Let's imagine you pick a time and date to meet a friend for some - to take some tea together. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] You're talking about perfectly ordinary things, um, the sun's in your eye and your friend offers that you should switch places so that the sun isn't directly in your eyes. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And you talk about traveling and he says, "I'm tired. I hope to take a trip." [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And he says, "Oh, you're dressed so nicely today. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Are these - are these words at all... unique or special? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Is there a meaning beneath the meaning or behind the meaning? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] No, there isn't. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] But if your friend goes and dies the next morning, then every single one of these words becomes endowed with a different meaning. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] All of these words tend to imply that it's - it's as if they tend to imply the person knew they were going to die. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] You say to yourself, "He said I'm tired, I'd like to take a trip." [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And this trip becomes that. [Farhadi, in Persian] [crowd laughs] [Interpreter:] You say, he is such a kind guy. He told me change places with me so the sun's not in your eyes. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] So, until there, until there's a crisis like death, um, none of this means anything. But then, when there is a crisis everything becomes a sign. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Now, getting to your question. In writing, I try to construct the story out of these very ordinary and seemingly unimportant moments and material. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Sometimes later in the story, I may darken their colors or reinforce them, but generally this is what I start with. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] This does not - this isn't in line with some of the rules of screenplay writing. And there are critics in my country actually, who say, "What do you mean? If she picked up the phone the whole thing wouldn't have happened?" And I have to state, "No, but that's exactly what I'm striving to achieve." [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] As for the scene in the taxi, I remember after I'd written the first summary of the story, I, then in the next stage added in that taxi scene. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Because after I'd written the first summary, I asked myself, "What is it this story is about?" And I realized it's about two subjects. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] One is a crisis of sexual - of a sexual nature. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Which, for various reasons, is less often spoken of in our culture. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And the other, uh, theme or subject is humiliation. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] When he's been accused in front of one of his students, he's hu- humiliated. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And these humiliations pile on, up until the end, leading to his violence. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And this is the central theme of "Death of a Salesman": Willy Loman's humiliation. [Malcolm:] It's - which brings me to um, what I was thinking was possibly a third theme, is these are very literate, very educated artists, who know this "Death of a Salesman", Sa'edi's work very well. And yet one gets the sense that their knowledge of art, the themes of this art doesn't help them, doesn't help guide their, guide their way through these everyday problems. So they don't turn to the work that they're performing onstage to find a way out of the dilemma they find themselves in. And yet your work seems to compel us to pay attention to these little things. To understand the moral ethical dimensions of these little things. But the film itself doesn't seem to put much faith in art's ability to change our ability to, to, you know, take control of our destiny in that way. [Farhadi and interpreter, inaudible] [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] In fact, the paradox of our main character is this very thing you bring up. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] If he were not a man of culture - I'm not going to say a, a progressive, because that's a whole other discussion - but if he were not a man of culture, a teacher, [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] If he was just your ordinary guy and behaved this way at the end, we wouldn't be as surprised. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Why is it that we're so... shocked by this one guy slapping someone? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Because this [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] this is a man of whom we don't expect this. He seems to be a man that can put himself in another's place, that can empathize with another. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Every night on stage he plays the part of Willy Loman and attempts to create a sense of empathy in the audience. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And here he is in real life facing a real Willy Loman. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And yet his conduct, his behavior towards this person is not what he is on stage. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And this is a paradox that's true of many of us. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] In more modern societies, it could be money or power that can change people. And in cultures like ours it can be the tension between tradition and modernity. [Malcolm:] So I have one more... [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Many tyrants, um, who are authoritarian are ones - are individuals who were prisoners, or at the mercy of prior tyrants. [Malcolm:] Well, I have one more question then we'll turn it over to the audience. Um, after "A Separation", you shot your next film "The Past" in Paris. And it was announced, I think, that you were going to then shoot your next project was going to be in Spain. But then you returned to Iran and shot "The Salesman" in Iran. I'm curious... what you learned your - about yourself as a filmmaker? As an artist? Working in another country, with another crew, a different kind of, in context. And then, why you went back to Iran to shoot "A Separation" or "The Salesman"? [Farhadi, in Persian] [crowd laughs] [Interpreter:] Only an Iranian might make this kind of decision. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpeter:] Because it was a purely emotional decision. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] I was working on a project in Spain. I had met with the actors. We'd looked at locations, and I was going to live several years in Madrid to make the film. [Farhadi, in Persian] [crowd laughs] [Interpreter:] And then it was Nowruz, which is the Persian New Year, and I was in Tehran for a couple of weeks and it was all quiet. Everybody was gone, and it was beautiful, and I thought, "Oh how can I leave this place?" [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And in those two weeks, I called and announced - it was a hard thing to do - "I want to make a film in Iran." And I convinced them to, um, put that project off by a year. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Uh, working outside of Iran feels for me more like gaining experience, becoming familiar with a different culture, sort of digesting something entirely different. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] But, till the end of my life, I hope, I hope there is no difficulties in this path. I hope to make most of my films in Iran. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Over the last few years, my relationship to my public has moved me so profoundly. I don't think I can stand the notion of losing that relationship. [Malcolm:] Speaking of that relationship, questions from the audience. Let's go right here on the aisle. Oh, we're gonna bring a mic up to you. So hold on. Man in the blue shirt, way at the back. [Man in audience, in Persian] [Malcolm:] Yeah, you should translate the question, sorry. [Interpreter:] Uh, my question is in the - in 1990, Roman Polanski made a film called "Death and the Maiden". [Malcom:] It's ok let's him finish his question. [Man in audience:] I'm not done with the question. [Man in audience:] So they thought I was done. My question is: [continued in Persian] [Man in audience, in Persian] [Interpreter: ] The main theme [Man in audience, in Persian] [Interpreter:] The main theme of that film is that the person who is assaulted, or raped, um, forgives the person that shattered them. Was this something that you thought about when conceiving of your project? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] No, there was no direct relationship. But there can be two different kinds of films or at least that is the claim. Let me explain. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Um, one is a manifesto that makes the claim that forgiveness is in every situation a priority. And it's one of - it's a human aspiration. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And there's another kind of film that asks, "What if it were you?" It creates the conditions for you to ask yourself that question. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] My efforts are to make this kind of film. Because in the circumstances, when human beings find themselves in those circumstances, it's not as simple as a theory. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] This is one reason why there has been so much discussion, why this film has led to so many conversations, at least in Iran. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] This is why I don't believe that a filmmaker can put themselves in a position to give advice, or to tell society what - to tell anyone what to do in society. I think the time for that has passed. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] I'm sorry, I have a question I want to ask. [Malcolm:] Sure, of course. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] It's Mr. Rohani, yes! [crowd applause] [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] One of the most memorable characters in Persian music. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Malcolm:] Another question from the audience? Okay, let's go right here, the woman right here. in the pink jacket. [Woman in audience, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Um, let me just quickly try to translate that. After thanking Mr. Farhadi, the lady wanted to ask: At the end of the film, you placed the man and the woman in this situation where the woman even though she was the victim, of whatever event it was that occurred, was able to forgive, so much so that she even resented the slap, but the man was not behaving that way at all. Did you have a message? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Uh, no, I didn't have a message just as in line with the answer I gave before. I didn't have a message, but there is an an- analysis that, um, applies here, that I've read. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Okay. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] It is an analysis that I subscribe to, though others have rejected it. I believe that women because they look to the future are much more capable of forgiving the past. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Perhaps because they are capable of bearing children, their gaze is directed more directly to the future. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And perhaps because in the long ago past men were fixed in one part of the earth, working it, they're much less prone to being willing to change. And they're much more directed to what is past. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] This was also the subject of my last film "The Past". The difference in reaction between a man and a woman regarding an event that had passed. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] But then, there's also the fact that I'm not sure whether or not the woman has forgiven, uh, has forgiven the old man, is the main question in this film. I actually don't think the woman has forgiven him. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] I think she was pointing to a different subject and also said it to her husband, "that if somebody invades our privacy, our private space, we don't in turn, have the right to invade somebody else's." [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] It was, [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] It was starting when she heard that the man's family were going to come that she stood firm and said, "No," to the revenge. This is an idea that's common to not do in kind. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] The man who had himself been humiliated was humiliating someone else. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And even when the husband went and started rifling through the private papers and telephone of the previous tenant, the wife said, "No, this is her private affairs." So she believed in the notion of private space and privacy. [Malcolm:] He also assumes she doesn't want to go to the police and he accepts that but then he pursues his own course of justice. He assumes her pain even though it causes her more pain in the future. It's like he kind of co-ops her, her assault in a way for himself. Um, so a reminder to keep the questions brief so we can have more of them, but also so we can translate them as well. So let me go over here. How about the gentleman standing? Um, [audience laughs] if you can bring up the microphone to him. [Malcolm:] Please keep your question brief. [Man #2 in audience:] It'll be brief. When she makes the remark that he is seeking vengeance. To the teacher, she makes a remark that, "you are seeking vengeance." Ah, this resonates in the Bible. Because in the Old Testament, God says, "Vengeance is mine." And in Corinthians, uh, the statement is made that, "He who seeks his own revenge digs two graves." Did this have any effect on what you wrote? The Old Testament or the New Testament? [Malcolm:] Okay. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] There is a commonality, regardless whether it was conscious or unconscious what I have written completely confirms what you are saying. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] To do in kind, for me, in my opinion, is the same as revenge. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] To say, "I'm gonna do this in kind to you," is, "I'm going to take revenge." [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] But does that mean that I'm saying that if somebody does a wrong they should not be punished? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] If that were the case, the world would come to an end. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] When is it that this punishment becomes to do the same back, or to do in kind, or vengeance? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] When the person that's been wronged is also the person who judges, reaches a sentence, and enacts it? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] What you're saying for those who are believers, is perhaps because only He is aware of every aspect of any story. [Malcolm:] Are there questions from the audience? Let's go, sorry I'm trying to - let's go to the woman right here in the white shirt. [Woman #2 in audience, in Persian] [Farhadi, in Persian] [Woman #2 in audience, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Um, there are two questions. The first one is why did you pick the, um, the character of the man who commits the crime, why did you pick an old man as that character? And the second question, referencing a film called "Reza" [?] which is a vengeance story, is asking if our cultured protagonist in this tale is a new version of "Reza" [?]? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Um, the question of whether - why this man is old, though old is really not the right term because sometimes people may feel offended to hear "old", and frankly he's not old, he's maybe 58 years old, but anyhow, why is he not a young man? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Let's imagine it was a young guy that went into the house. A young, fit, hot guy that goes in to the house. [audience laughs] [Malcolm:] We can imagine that. [Interpreter:] And we don't, we don't have to wonder anymore, you know, what, what's supposed to happen. You want the husband to go and beat him up, you know, that's... [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And our mental cliché is dictating that as well, because up until the point we find it out, we actually think the son-in-law is the perpetrator. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] It's when a character enters the scene with the qualities of a father, then we become conflicted wondering, "What are we supposed to do now about this guy?" [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Where did this come from? Why did I pick this kind of character? It started in a moment on a street in Tehran. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] I was standing, um, in the balcony of my office looking out on the street. And at the intersection there was a young woman. And a car had pulled up and was trying at any cost to get her to get in. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] I decided to go down because it seemed clear that the woman was being harassed. So I went down but as I approached and realized the driver was someone with the same characteristics as my character, an older person, I just suddenly felt forbidden, interdicted. It just all became very difficult for me. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And so with the screenplay, when I was trying to think up the character, I thought I'm going to bring the guy behind the wheel. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] As far as the second question, the character in that film and the character in this film are two entirely different characters. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] He makes the decision to carry out justice on his own and based on the particularities of his class in society. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And 50 years later, a character if he were to do exactly the same thing, it would really mean that over 50 years, we've made no progress. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Though even right now, there are those who ask, "Why doesn't the guy go and kill this guy?" [audience laughs] [Malcolm:] So let's go right here. The gentleman here. [Man #3 in audience, in Persian] [Interpreter:] My question is slightly technical since you are the screen writer and the director on these films. I'm wondering... when you finish writing the screenplay, and begin directing, are you still going back and forth and changing things in the writing as you're directing and as you're shooting the film? Or is it a one-time thing where you finish writing, and then go on to shoot? And my second question [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Okay. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] These two things are not really separable from me. While I'm writing, in some ways, my mind is also directing and then during the shooting phase, when I'm directing, I am also making adjustments to the writing. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] But, where my feelings are concerned, for instance, if my daughter says they've asked me in school, "What's your father's job?" I say you should answer, "He's a writer." [Malcolm:] Okay, let's go right in middle, right here. The one right in the middle. [Woman #3 in audience, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Also a technical question. What is your relationship to your cinematographers, and how do you pick them? And also most - in a lot of your work is with a handheld camera that also advances your story. And I'd like you to speak about that. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] As far as the cinematographer goes, it's for me, it's not someone who's just capturing an image. It, it's somebody with whom I need to have an emotional relationship. Uh, I need to have feelings... a relationship that's friendly with them, so often they are friends of the family, intimate friends of the family. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Backstage or during shooting, most of my conversations are with the cinematographer, also with my sound recorder. And it was a very unfortunate year where we lost many people, including my main sound recorder. Um, but I'm mostly talking to my cinematographer when I'm shooting. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] As far as the handheld camera is concerned uh, my explanation is that when a camera is being - camera's on the shoulder, the camera's being handheld, we don't feel like we're seeing a film. We feel as though we're inside real life. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Which is a lie, but it's a lie we've collectively accepted. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Um, in reality this is not so at all in real life because when we walk and look, things are not moving up and down in the real world. Our eye has the capacity to register the image that stays fixed as though it were a traveling shutter, a Steadicam. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] But why is it that the audience with the handheld camera with all of its movements, immediately interprets that as being, "this is almost documentary, this must be like real life." [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Because in the earliest days, the earliest reportage that we saw: news footage, um, shot during war time or other chaotic situations where there couldn't be a tripod was this kind of moving image. And so it's a convention, that's got us to believe that this is the way reality is shot. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And another consequence of this kind of shooting is that it creates some stress. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] In "About Elly", while the girl's around, up until the moment she disappears, the camera's on a tripod. And then um, until the moment where her corpse is found, the camera's handheld. [Malcolm:] Time for a few more questions. Let's go all the way in the back. The gentleman in the blue shirt, way in the back. [Man #4 in audience, in Persian] [Interpreter:] I'm going to try and summarize the question, but if I make a mistake, please interrupt me. Um, in your remarks, um, you referred to the film's dealing with the middle class. And the man, the old man, that was previously discussed at the intersection with his pickup or car, was possibly from the middle classes. And you've spoken about representing middle class dilemmas at different times. However, dealing with the character, who is the invader, um, in this film, the, the person, that's the perpetrator. We're definitely dealing with somebody who is from the lower classes, who's not even got the means to have his own car and has to use his son-in-law's car at night. So are you by extrapolation implying that there's some kind of an assault on the middle class by the very limited of means lower class? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] I try not to, to divisions by class as such, just as our main character, who's a teacher is also... [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] ...is also being invasive of his students. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And Baback, who's the guy, that's their friend in the theater has, is the one who has the relationship with the previous tenant. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And it would seem that the woman in the taxi also has her own difficulties in dealing with matters of a sexual nature. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] It seems to me it, this is not exclusive to any class. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Uh, there's something that's talked about a lot, but that I don't subscribe to, that I'm going to explain now. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] With the, um - sociological descriptors of class in our society don't apply in the same way that they do, let's say, in France. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] What we're talking about when we talk about class in our society is an economic division of class. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] In France, when we talk about a bourgeois class, it's not just someone of a certain, of certain financial means. It's, it also goes hand in hand with a certain cultural identity. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] In fact that bourgeoisie has always been a protector of the arts. They've gone and paid great sums of money for a painting or patronized music. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] This is not some kind of support for them. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] But given the turbulence in our history or recent history, there's been changes in the economic means of individuals so that overnight they've gone from being wealthy to being poor or from being poor to being wealthy, without their cultural identities evolving or changing at all. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] So for instance, it's sometimes said that the lower classes, meaning those who have fewer means, are more religious. But this is, at least, in the major cities not true because you have some very wealthy people who are very religious and some people who are poor, who are not at all religious. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And the other thing that I want to point out and I'm going to try and speed through this because it, it could be a very long discussion. I don't see the relationship of that older man with the previous tenant as purely a sexual relationship. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] When that, when he's, um, when he's bought a bicycle for the woman's child or left money without even counting it, it seems that the ties might be stronger on an emotional front. And the money might not even be for sex. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Even the way in which he says her name. He calls it. It seems to reverberate in a way that goes beyond just a sexual relationship. There was an emotional attachment there. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And when you asked, "Do you think somebody of his limited means could be indulging in this kind of sexual adventurism?" Or whatever. Do you realize that most addictions for instance to opium exist in this class? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] What I meant is not that the people in this class are mostly addicts, but just that people in this class who are addicts have to confront a very high degree of expense for their addiction. [Malcolm:] You had also referred to that figure, the, the old man as a Willy Loman figure, who in the context of the play and in American culture is very an every man figure. I mean he's lower middle class who is striving and fails to achieve the American dream. And that's one of his great challenges and his self-identity. One more question. One more quick question, so let's do... Wait, did we already call on you? No, we didn't. Right behind you. Okay, right here. Sorry. [Woman #4 in audience, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Uh, thank you for your films. I want to bring up the notion of honor, which is, every - "honor" is a very poor translation of a very specific term in Persian culture called "aberu", which is a combination of face - saving face, and honor. This is something that you bring up in all your films and it's something that Emad is confronting in this film. And when are we going to break the wall of "aberu"? [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] When we say "aberu" what do you - what do we mean? What is the meaning of this word? It's the social image that others have of us. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] This has two sides. And one side of it is very valuable. It's one of the unique aspects of our culture and it shouldn't go away or disappear. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] When in our conduct in society we're conscious not to do anything that would ruin our social image, this actually guards against us behaving immorally. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] But when this social image itself becomes our only aim, that our only aim becomes behaving in such a way that others will like us, then this is no longer a tool for behaving morally. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] Because this is our life's mission. We try at whatever cost to protect the image that others have of us. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] You know, the idiomatic expression, "To keep our faces rosy by slapping them." [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And you have to ask, "Why should one do such a thing?" [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] What this is, is a lie. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] To do a wrong, in order for the social image to remain intact. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] This aspect of it, yes, we can bring it under question. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And the other side, we can nourish and nurture. [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] It is a fairly famous sentence in our culture, "A person who's not worried about their 'aberu' will do anything." [Farhadi, in Persian] [Interpreter:] And that's referring to the right side that somebody who doesn't care will commit any crime. They don't care what people think about them. [Malcolm:] Well "The Salesman" opens January 27th at the Laemmle Theatres here in Los Angeles. So please spread the word about that. And Mr. Farhadi, thank you very much for coming to join us. [audience applause]