The First 25 Years (1973)

the reason I came to Los Alamos uh actually goes back to about 1930 at that time I was a graduate student in physics University of California and my boss Professor Leonard Lu uh suggested that I joined the naval Reserve as an engineering officer I had always been interested in machinery and big steam Machinery so I thought that was a good idea and I did and from that to rather casual decision back I say about 1929 or 30 eventually followed a train of events which uh got me to Las Salos I got my degree in physics uh went to teach physics at Stanford University and then when the war came on or shortly before I found this old na Reserve commission coming back to call me up having been in the nav reserve for 10 years then I couldn't see any good reason for not going on with the problem so I said yes I'm ready when do I go and where do I [Music] go and I was assigned as Nord research officer to um Naval proving man at Doan Virginia where Believe It or Not There was my old friend uh Leonard L I spent the first three years of the war there till 1944 and the course of that I worked for a man by name of Dee Parsons then Captain Parsons and one day in the spring of 44 I think it was or thereabouts he sort of disappeared from The Proving Ground and uh nobody would say where he went uh there were rumors of some project that a lot of physics were working on somewhere but no one knew much about it in fact no one knew anything about it and uh there was some specul that perhaps Admiral par that Captain Parsons had uh had joined that project but a little later in the spring early summer I was taking my first leave of my family out in California when I got a frantic telegram from Bureau of Naval personnel which uh said your leave is cancelled uh report to alberquerque to Mexico where you will be met [Music] at Albuquerque I was met by my old friend edal Parsons then by Kamer and we started out the 100 mile drive to to Los Alamos and at that time I got the first clue as to what was what was going on here it was very Pleasant trip it uh reminded me of my home in California nice beautiful desert country and uh I'd seen about all I want or to of the green fields and hills of Virginia and so when Parson said that he wanted me to come here be assigned here and help George kovski and the operation of what was then called the explosive division uh I was no position to argue much anyway and except for a slight fleeting thought that crossed my mind more than once once I got there I'd never get away in about a month I'd packed up my fairs at at doen and uh driven across the country my family and turned up uh at what wasin somewhat sometimes sort of as a concentration camp uh place called project y was Los Alamos but all that anybody knew was Project y first impressions of the place were a little extraordinary uh there were a series of old green buildings made of fiberboard twostory high lining a narrow road surrounded by a fence General Des of these buildings were Barracks uh some little prefab sort of Huts that been brought down from Hanford and a considerable number of of uh rather Bleak but very efficient for Family Apartments and in addition to that housing there was a place called bathro bathro was all that was left at that point almost all it was left are the days of lelus ranch school because up until 1942 L lelus have been the sight of a boy School [Music] there was the big house which was one of the boy dormitories a nice Stone log building a beautiful building called Fuller Lodge and three or four stone buildings that were classrooms and housing for for the Masters and then a big log building where Parsons himself left that time live but it was a rather extraordinary place to come to uh they work six days a week very busy the uh group of people which had been gathered here by Oppenheimer was the most extraordinary group of people I met all the physicist I'd uh read about and read their papers for the last uh 15 years in the flesh there there there they were working uh there were about as many GIS as there were civilians at work uh the gis were of very uh stage of academic career some had phds and were sergeants some were the uh two-year engineering wonders who had been snatched from their college careers and given a quick course in physics or chemistry or engineering and uh sent to work in techical Pursuits but the I say the extraordinary thing about it was the the way in which this strange group of people uh work together I won't say without friction but I will say with extraordinary Harmony I mentioned that the the laboratory worked with extraordinary unanimity extraordinary Harmony and I think there is one man who should be given the entire credit for the way in which the which the laboratory was able to function lesser man couldn't have done it and man only the greatness of of Robert Oppenheimer it seems to me could have really carried this out absolutely extraordinary man totally dedicated to his task he knew a great deal about everything you could come to him in almost any subject any subject in physics mathematics very shortly any subject in explosives hydrodynamics OPI knew what you were talking about had a useful comment had a useful opinion could make a wise decision always willing to listen to anyone believe me among a group of military and a group of civilians and scientists there were people that took a lot of listening to some because they had something important to say and some sometimes because their feelings were hurt about something uh ABI navigated this difficult group of people this these difficult problems with extraordinary skill and uh with practical unanimity he was the leader he was the boss it was ay's project uh later on of course in the hearings about having to do with his clearance uh he was criticized by some for disloyalty I myself knowing him here at Los Alamos during the War years cannot believe that there could be a man more dedicated more honest more devoted to his country more devoted to getting this task done done rapidly and done well I myself will never doubt his personal loyalty his personal integrity and I will never cease to regret the fact that his loyalty had to be called into question stance cancel during the those unhappy hearings everyone was always glad that later on the fact this was an mistake was recognized by the country when Opa received the FY award life of Los Alamos during those War years was was very exciting it had its frustrations uh one of the major frustrations was probably due to the fact that uh the existence of lelos was classified the fact that one was at lelos was classified we didn't exist at all uh for example all incoming mail was opened and read to make sure that nothing wrong was coming into anyone all outgoing mail was put into the post office post office socalled unsealed where it was read by the sensor the sensor thought it was all right he sealed it or she sealed it and uh it was sent up through the normal us males but the fact the mail was censored was itself classified and so the sensor didn't like what you said he simply sent the letter back to you and uh left you to guess what you had done wrong uh but you got used to it and nowadays those envelopes with the sealed by the sensor are philatelic Curiosities and very very rare at the time they were something of a of a humorous curse another problem of course those were the days of gas rationing we had about enough gasoline per family car to make one trip to Santa Fe a month uh naturally people got together and uh one was able to get there perhaps twice a month but it was forbidden and people B this to go farther away than Santa Fe unless there was some uh domestic uh crisis that required one's presence some somewhere else case permission had to be obtained Santa Fe was very relaxed about the existence of this secret project on the hill it had various uh rumors uh one of it was a submarine base connected by a long tunnel Pacific Ocean also was a home for let's say Wayward wax uh but the residents of the state of New Mexico were very much to be committed for their lack of curiosity about what was happening up here clearly was classified there was a fence around it there were guard Gates had of a pass but uh no one was no one was really very curious and no one tried to pry it's hard to I say to recapture all its all its facets one of the expent things about it was the way in which very famous people live together uh perhaps at one time or another more B laurates came by Los Alamos and have ever come by any similar place in the course of time almost every physics department of any consequence United States our chemistry Department these days has an alumnus or has several alumni of Los Alamos [Music] Lawrence was a frequent visitor here and his enthusiasm his energy his absolute dedication to the project which started at the rad lab in Berkeley uh was infectious for anyone who who knew him fairy of course was a absolutely wonderful man uh there was no subject in physics uh which he could think about and explain sometimes his explanations were so simple and so obvious that while one listened to them they went down uh very easily you think now I understand that perfectly a little later on when you try to recapture that proof of that theorem it wasn't quite as simple as it had seemed when FY himself was talking about it but absolutely wonderful man and his his guidance his help his ideas his intuition was was beyond belief frish was here famous besides for his physics for his ability to play the [Music] piano and SRA the great names of of physics uh we're here at Los some as residents some as [Music] visitors bore himself came occasionally and uh all of these were very exciting to to a young physicist and to the younger people who were here the Tactical job which the laboratory had to do between the middle of 1943 and just as soon thereafter as it could possibly accomplished best described as to see if at Tomy bomb could be made and if it could be made make one very early in the game after sort of the basic physics had been worked out at the Met lab and a lot of University Laboratories around the country began to look increasingly problem but there was nothing in nature that said you couldn't make a nuclear explosion let's say you couldn't release an enormous amount of nuclear energy very rapidly and uh have an extraordinary explosion of a different magnitude than any had been ever seen before nevertheless one was dealing with a regime of temperature and pressure that never been seen the surface of the Earth and it was always of course possible that somewhere uh there was a phenomenon or an effect which had been overlooked there seem to be two ways to go about getting this nuclear explosion the most commonplace one was what we then call the gun type of assembly where one simply brought two subcritical pieces of effici material together fast enough under suitable conditions so the explosion would result but in the course of working on that particular method of attack on the problem another idea turned up the laboratory that it might be possible to assemble material by explosive means in a spherical geometry and uh if this were the case then there would be certain gains in let's say efficiency and in their pass even practicability so both of these ways of going about the palum were under active exploration by the time I came blamus it was the increased emphasis that op wish to place and KY wanted to place upon the implosion type assembly that I think was probably direct responsible by being assigned to that that type of activity neverless both both of these things were were pursued with equal Vigor and uh there was almost a wace between the availability of material and the availability of the necessary professional technical skills physics skills explosive skills to make either one or the other type of device actually as Now history of course these both the task of the gun type device and the implosion type device were completed about the same time and it was decided to test to make a test uh near Al Muro I called the Trinity site of the implosion system there was good reason for doing this the if there was anything wrong time to find out about it was now rather than heat of battle secondly the implosion system was the most technically complicated uh if it worked it would test two things at once it would test this fundamental concern that I mentioned a moment ago can you or can you not make any atomic bomb and if it we could then had we made the implosion system sufficiently precise and its Associated gadgetry sufficiently good that indeed we had a useful nuclear weapon as everyone knows the test was a a great techical success the behavior of the device was well within the range of predictions it's quite a large range but rather at the upper end of those predictions it's a frightening thing to see in a sense the to me the Brilliance of the light which accomp the explosion was something that one had no prior uh experience and seeing absolutely amazing we were far enough away at least I was so the noise the sound the explosion Expos bang was not particularly unusual one had heard that before but the brilliant and longlasting light was something that had never before been seen [Music] [Music] many people have since uh claimed to have had very deep thoughts and I sometimes going asked did you have any great deep thoughts about this subject at that particular instant I'm afraid the answer must be no I did not we had worked very hard for the preceding several days uh many worked very hard for the preceding several years years and this was a technical achievement of the highest highest order I think probably for most of us our thoughts were more long as well G whiz it work and there was a sort of a a professional Triumph here uh with a little thought for what one had really done uh in the connection with the history of the world the history of warfare neveress those thoughts of course came came very soon afterwards because the question then was being faced already if the aloto test is successful uh will the device be used at uh in Japan in connection with the war and of course having proved that nuclear explosions can take place both types of device were were then available for for use and at the highest levels it was decided that this would indeed be done it's my own very strong opinion that this was a correct decision although I know that many people have had had second thoughts about it or feelings of guilt or whatever you wish nevertheless it has to be remembered I believe quite aside from the American lives were probably saved by avoiding an invasion uh not being how sure the occasional rumors that a pieace was could be have been negotiated nless I think it has to be remembered that nuclear fishing uh was known then and known before the war around the world it was known that Hitler had considered the possibility of making an atomic bomb in his country the Russians certainly knew about it the British knew about it uh if we had not made the bomb someone else would have I would for many many reasons prefer that this country have done it [Music] after the war came to a close Los Alamos went to a rather strange period of inter ragum um a number of us believe very strongly that the things that we had not done and the Avenues of research develop have been opened up would now have to be undertaken uh that the world having seen an atomic bomb having known it was now possible would certainly in several countries undertake to do it themselves uh it was not possible the attempt was made to see if one couldn't get nuclear Accord 1945 46 but it failed I say of course because that was perhaps too much to ask of of human nature perhaps the most important thing that the atomic bomb had opened up was the possibility of making a fusion bomb because now one had on the surface of the Earth those conditions of temperature and pressure which are necessary to make the fusion reaction the reaction between very light elements take place and uh this was simply now a a possibility and would have to be looked at it uh if we didn't someone else Sur would most of our first attempts were uh thetical attempts uh led us into blind alleys it didn't work or didn't work well and seem to be pretty cumbersome and effective but uh eventually if smart people work on a problem long enough and if it's within the realm of nature they'll find the way through it Edward tiller and Stan ulum supplemented by I don't know how many coffee table discussions and our discussions and experiments came up with a way that looked feasible to make a thermonuclear explosion to make the hydrogen bomb or the fusion bomb possible and so we voted then almost the entire energy of the labatory along that particular line and we successful in the mic shot [Music] Mike shot marked both the end of an era and the beginning of a new one in the laboratory's goals and programs it was a triumphant technical success it showed that we had a long ways to go and making adaptations of th devices for military purposes but also showed that we could begin to look more widely for other programs that the laboratory could conduct which were of National need National interest or national benefit we have various reasons for doing this one of the important ones was that in contrast with almost every other field of human endeavor which I am aware the atomic bomb business seeks to put itself out of business our one objective Los Alamos has always been bombs never get used that United States was always ahead both in technology and a willingness to discuss the abandonment of nuclear warfare uh and we still hoped in the 50s as we still hoped in the 60s and hope in the 70s that someday the atomic bomb and the fusion bomb and all weapons of that sort of mass destruction will be things of the past the same time we look for other areas of opportunity things that occur to one quickly we can play a role in ecological studies some of the things we've been doing in nuclear weaponry and nuclear testing are directly applicable to the study of of pollution basic research will always be necessary graduate education physics chemistry mathematics computers Metallurgy you name it this can be done L El and I think one of the great roles the next 10 or 20 years will be a role in graduate education not for just one University but for many universities the last 25 years have been fun mostly there have been troubles uh the budget reared his ugly head more and more in the last uh five or 10 uh that's I think been the worst problem but it's a real one it's one that one has to expect we just had it too good directly after the war have enjoyed my career here it's my home and I propose to continue to live here other hand I'm glad glad to leave some of these problems many of them to my successor Harold agu uh he will have fun solving them as well there's only one thing that I hope very much the atomic bomb is now 25 years old the countryes of the world have not yet found any clear way to abolish nuclear warfare small steps have been made testband treaties seabed treaties nonproliferation treaties the current salt talks are all steps in the right direction they're all steps which tell people that the people of the world are worried about nuclear weapons if I had one hope and I have it very strongly is the next 25 years don't go by without really having accomplished the goal of the first 25 namely to abolish nuclear warfare [Music] for