Terminal USA (1993) | Jon Moritsugu, Eric Nakamura

All of the archive screenings in the wild are free thanks to a gift from an anonymous donor. We're grateful to them for their support. This series and the screening has been made possible with support from the UNI initiative at the UCL at UCLA for globalizing Japanese humanities. I want to give a special thanks to Initiative Director Michael Emer for his continued commitment to archive programming. I also want to thank Kathy Aker and Kate Park who really got the ball rolling on this idea for this whole series back in uh 20 uh 2023. So, let's get a round of applause for all those folks right now. So, thank you all for coming out to the second night in our series celebrating the 30th anniversary of Giant Robot, the magazine, the store, and everything it has come to be and mean for mean to all of us over the years. We had a lot of great shows coming up uh between now and November 17th. lot of amazing guests. Uh uh Michael Arius will be here with Techon Concrete. Next Friday we're going to have um Daniel Woo is going to be here for our closing night on November 17th. A lot of other guests in between. So please check our web page for uh additional information. Uh I want to say that it was an honor uh and a pleasure for of for myself and archive television curator Mark Quigley to work on this series with Giant Robot uh founder Eric Nakamura. I want to give Eric a big thanks for all the time and intention that he put into this series. Um, so with the first Zen style photocopied issue of Giant Robot, uh, came out in 1994. It ran 66 pages, I think thereabouts, 16 of which, by far the longest article, was devoted to legendary underground filmmaker John Morsugu. Since the mid1 1980s, Morsugu had been taking apart American cultural pretensions and cliches in a series of punkfueled cinematic assaults, including Little Debbie Snackor of New York City, Dar Elvis, and Sleazy Rider. In 1990, his feature film My My Degeneration about an allgirl punk band premiered at the Sundance Film Festival. On the occasion of his interview in Giant Robot, John had just completed Terminal USA and was finishing production on his fourth feature Mod [ __ ] Explosion. John's films including Fame Horse, Scumrock, and Pig Death Machine have played worldwide at festivals including Sundance, Can Berlin, Toronto, Roderdam, Venice, the New York Underground Film Festival, and the Chicago Underground Film Festival, which awarded him its lifetime achievement award in 2013. His films have also screened at museums including MoMA, the Guggenheim, and The Whitney. We are absolutely thrilled. I can't tell you how long I've been a fan of John and I'm just absolutely thrilled that Eric Nakamura and John Moritzuk are here with us tonight. Let's give them a round of applause first. So, we're going to begin tonight with the screening of Terminal USA, which will be followed immediately by a Q&A with Eric and John. Then, we'll have a 10-minute intermission, and we'll follow that with Gregor Rocky's haunting 2004 feature starring uh Joseph Gordon Levit, Mysterious Skin. So, for now, for now, please uh help me welcome to the stage Eric Nakamura. [Applause] Thanks so much for coming out. I appreciate it. And I'm really uh happy to have John out here from uh Hawaii. Uh so again, this this man uh was one of the first interviews I conducted and I I don't think I knew what to do about that. It just it was really long and I don't think I anything got edited out and but it was just one of those things where I just he had this punk rockness but it just had this different vibe. It was just a crazy punk rockness to it. And uh I was just one of those things where I was like, "Okay, this whole thing has to stay." And it becomes a mainstay of issue number one of Giant Robot. It's how it really all part of how it all begins. And uh so I always thank you for that, you know, it's it's like a big part of like my career and beginning. I didn't quite understand everything at the time or nothing even but um understanding uh John and meeting him uh made me kind of think this is all doable and I you know that punk rockness can prevail and it can pave the way for a future. So in that way thank you. Yeah. So uh yeah and I want to introduce you to John who's here from Hawaii. [Applause] Hi everybody. Good evening. I guess uh we seem to have a theme tonight. It seems to be punk rock. Uh in terminal USA, uh I think this whole movie was just sort of the whole ontology of the movie is punk rock. everything from how I got started, how I got the money to the production to pissing off executives to uh just like sort of like sort of like burning down my career with this picture. It it was very punk rock. And uh looking back on this movie, I sort of see every step of it being made as almost like one joke after another. And just as an example, I mean, I got the money. I you know, I applied for the grant. I got the money, but I basically uh when filling out the application, I treated it as a joke. I didn't spend any time doing it. I spent about an hour. It really was a piece of [ __ ] I submitted and I got the money honestly. And I later talked to the committee. I said, "Why did you give me the money?" Because I submitted a piece of [ __ ] to you. And they said, "Your piece of [ __ ] was the only one out of the thousand applications that made us laugh out loud." So that was my moment. I was like, "Wow, I if you make the committee laugh, maybe you can get the money." And I don't know, it it just it seemed like the whole project was started on the premise of a prank or a punk or a joke and it sort of continued through the whole life of the project, which is why it's such a delightful movie to me. I mean, I just look back on it and I just laugh. Uh, but long story short, uh, we're going to watch this movie on this amazing screen in this amazing theater, which I'm calling the the best theater in Los Angeles. It's maybe argue arguably the best, but I'm really excited to see it. Uh, AGA did the 2K uh transfers and, you know, we we tweaked the movie and made it look really good, blah blah blah. But thanks for making it out. Glad to be out. I haven't been out in a while. Good to be off the rock called Hawaii and good to be here in LA with all of you beautiful people. Thank you. All right. When I said that John's films had played worldwide, that was actually an inside joke because in the interview he says when the in the grant application it says wherever your films played, he just wrote worldwide. >> So you are definitely going to want to stick around for the Q&A. >> All right. So please turn off all cell phones and electronic devices and enjoy Terminal USA. Thank you. Well, please help me welcome to the stage Eric Nakamura and John Moritugu. [Applause] >> No socks. >> Where to start? Let's start. Let's start before let's start at before the beginning, I think, which is so the the first issue of giant robot came out in 1984 which had your article, but you had met before that. you had met like a few years before that and how did you guys meet? >> So I I was going to San Francisco State for one semester after going to Santa Monica College. I went to Santa Monica College for a while >> and then as at while I was at SF State I decided to I got an internship at NATA which is the North American Asian something >> American telecommunications >> association right so it's like this Asian-American group and uh >> but their mission was like to promote like Asian American films and production, right? >> Yeah. So, I was a basically a volunteer and uh >> John and Greg Iraqi did a talk like a together like a tandem talk at their I guess at their office in the end, right? It was it was like a space in our office and I was a photographer. I volunteered as a photographer. I took pictures. That's where I met John and Greg. >> Yeah. And I remember uh after the gig, I mean Greg and I did like a one of these like lowbudget punk rock film making workshops or something and I remember giving you a ride home to like the Sunset District or something and that's when like that's when we just started talking, you know, on the ride home and that's when we I think we really first met. >> Awesome. >> Yeah, it was pretty. >> I don't remember this ride home at all, but okay. Thanks for the ride. >> Well, you were on drugs, right? >> Thanks for the ride. >> You're welcome. Yeah. So, um, yeah, we stayed in touch and then Eric had this idea for Giant Robot. >> Yeah. Uh, I saw I saw I mean I saw some of your other films. I saw this one and uh I just thought, "Oh my gosh, this is the person to interview, you know, like this this is like all of Asian-American 1. You just saw a movie." Uh, yeah. What made you write the great Asian-American family story? Well, well, well, I'm a I'm a family type of guy, you see. Uh, no, there they had a theme to the, uh, application process. So, the it was the theme was, you know, families. And basically what they wanted to do was, uh, pick seven filmmakers to create works that would sort of blow open the idea of what a family is. So, you had, you know, filmmakers making stories about gay families or, you know, mine about an Asian-American family, stuff that wasn't like the mainstream. Uh, one of the people who got one of these awards was Todd Haynes. I got one, five other people, but >> and the they is the independent television service. >> Yeah. ITVS. >> ITVs. And the and the just to frame it. So, and the ultimate goal was to get it on PBS. >> Yes. Yeah. ITVs is taxpayer money and there's sort of a subset of PBS, but they basically were like, "Yeah, we want to give seven filmmakers budgets, make some TV shows, and then get this crazy stuff on TV." And they they certainly did. I mean, uh, it Terminal USA played in like 250 different cities, but it was also sort of [ __ ] up because, uh, Los Angeles didn't play it. U, there's a woman here running the PBS thing and she she honestly uh, kept promising she would play it, but she kept preempting it and it was a political thing. Same thing happened in uh, San Francisco. They did not play it. It was a weird time in the '9s where the government was coming under a lot of pressure from the from the conservatives like, "You're funding degenerate artwork. they're funding too much [ __ ] up [ __ ] And so, uh, all these like big cities got a little bit afraid of playing this movie. So, LA never ran it. San Francisco never ran it, but it played in 250 other cities all over America. >> Did ITVs like it? And did you know like did all Yeah, >> they they were really screwed up because I mean I told you how I got the um the money and the application process, all that stuff. And it it was a pretty radical script. I mean, I made it to the semi-final round and they gave me 10 grand to write a fe, you know, to make this into a script in two weeks. And I was working in a record store, so I was suddenly was like, I have 10 grand. I'm getting paid to write. [ __ ] this job. So, I quit the job. And I was like, I'm a full-time writer at least for two weeks. And I I I first I started the script really like a script 101. I'm going to do this the legit way. And then I thought, wow, I've made it this far. I've made 10,000 bucks just being a [ __ ] and being a punk. So I said I should certainly consider uh continue this modus operandi. So I basically stayed up for 50 hours non-stop, hammered out a rough draft of the script and that's what I mailed in it. It had loose ends, characters who disappeared, you know, stuff like that. But I just was like, "This is how I'm going to do it. They'll get an idea." Sent it in and then I got the money and then u yeah, years later they said it was the only script that made them laugh. And so I thought that was one of those moments of brilliance where I was like the world actually makes sense to me. I fit in. This is cool. >> You also said something very I thought very punk rock in the interview where you were like basic I mean you were making I mean this was the biggest budget you had worked with before and you were like basically you discovered trial by fire that having more money is more of a pain in the ass than having no money. >> Can you talk a little about the production and what that what that what that what that budget meant in terms of how it changed your workflow? Oh man, it it was weird cuz I I had been making I had made a feature for 10,000 bucks, another one for 5,000, and then I was working on another for maybe 20 25 grand, and suddenly I got 360,000 bucks in. And I I thought, you know, now I have a budget 10 times greater, so it's going to be 10 times better a movie. And it it really wasn't. I it was we were sort of in that weird gray zone where we had enough money to do stuff but not enough to do it right or just to you know it just was a lack of we had to deal with unions and SAG and all this stuff and I I remember in the first one week we spent 80,000 bucks just incorporating setting up an office renting the warehouse space and I was just like sort of flabbergasted like wow we spent 80,000 bucks we don't even have footage to show for this and I could have made like 10 features with this uh but it was a really hard project because yeah we had to pay for everything and even good friends who had resources were sort of like wow you have money I'm going to charge you to use my car you know like cool valiant a friend was like all right you want to use my car you have to pay me hundred bucks and everyone was sort of like trying to grab the money it got a little weird >> well so um let's talk a little bit about the film itself I want to talk let's go through the let's go through some of the characters Narasaki and Sharon Omi or play the parents they I mean for lack a better words, they were coming from legitimate film and theater careers. I'm curious, what did they think of the script and how did you just how did you talk with them? >> All right. All right. It it was really hard to get them the script. They both are were San Francisco actors like really commercial like Ken was doing Budweiser commercials and you know Shakespeare in the Park and stuff like that. Nothing edgy. Ken had been cast in a couple of movies and it it was really a [ __ ] up experience for him. Uh he was cast in one movie where in the middle of the shoot the director was and the producers were like, "You're not Asian enough." And he already is playing like some kung fu gardener or something. And they're like, "You're not Asian enough." And he was like, "How what are you talking about?" They were like, "Well, you speak nice, fluent English. You got to give that an accent. You can't, you know, be an Asian without an accent, a [ __ ] up, you know, accent." So he was doing these like legit movie roles where they were just doing this racist [ __ ] to him. and he was sort of sick of it. So, he wanted to bust out with something new. Uh, we had to go through their uh agent and management and the agent did not want to give them the script. The agent read the script and was like, "This is too outrageous. I'm not going to give it to them." Somehow, we got the script behind the scenes, you know, to the actors and they loved it. So, you know, they just jumped on and did the movie. >> So, back in the day, I actually saw Ken Narasaki in plays when I was at San Francisco State. I saw him in actual Asian-American plays. So, I was just when I saw him in this movie, I'm like, "Whoa, this is a big change for this actor who's kind of in the Asian-American acting scene to all of a sudden doing one of John's movies, which I thought was amazing." Then I would run into him on Sautell, right? He actually was hanging out in Sautell a bunch, and I would always bring up only this movie, you know, and he was kind of like a little bit like like he never embraced it at that time, but he was kind of like, "Yeah, okay." You know, but I was like, "You're amazing in there." You know, I was just giving him encouragement. >> It was a weird experience. >> It was literally he said that kind of stuff. Yeah. You know, but I was always like praising him going, "You were amazing. What are you talking?" You know, like >> Yeah. He I mean, they were really really great to work with. And I mean, >> another reason why I cast them is husband and wife acting team. I was like, I I won't have to rehearse as much because they're going to just do that on their own at home. And they did. >> My god. >> I mean, really. U E Eric uh he had a description of Terminal USA. I just recently read I think it was in the the giant robot book and he said yeah this movie turned out pretty well for John but it definitely was like a very loweffort project for you were like you gave it like 30% or you did >> yeah you know you said something and it it was really funny but it was totally true because I mean it was a really tiring movie to make where we were really stupid. We chose a a location that was near a bus depot and we we didn't really scout it out. So, it turned out that the bus depot was running all day. So, we had to film pretty much from like sunset until sunrise, which is a really tough schedule. Yeah. So, uh Wow. What were we talking about? >> Oh, what's it Well, what's it like playing the two What's it like playing two different characters? >> Oh, man. It it it was terrifying. And uh I hate acting. I'm not an actor. And I just did that to piss people off. I mean, with With actors, there's sort of a dream role for every freaking actor out there. And you play twins because uh with twins, you can show your range. It's like, oh my god, you're a mean person and a cool person. You have this dynamic range as an actor. Actors love twins. It's like the dream role. And I was like, I'm not going to give this to any actors. I'm going to do it and I'm just going to like not really rehearse. I'm just going to sort of like dial it in and I'm going to just really piss people off. And I would walk around the movie set saying like, yeah, I got the dream role. I'm not even an actor. And I'd say this in front of the actors and stuff and I don't know why. >> Did you pay yourself twice? >> I actually did. >> Awesome. >> Yeah. I was working with Andrea Sperling and she's a really great producer. So, she was like I I mean for at a at a certain point I was like, "No, I don't want to get paid." And she's like, "Are you crazy? You have to get paid for everything you do." So, I was like, "All right, Andrew, I'm sticking with you. This is awesome. This is good business." But talking about like, you know, the kinds of stereotypical roles that Ken was playing and and I'm sure like you Sharon had to deal with. So I'm very curious like I mean the script came together really quick, the idea came together really quick. Were how much were you drawing on your own experience having to just break out of these stereotypes that people I mean how much was that? How much was how much was personal for you in this? I mean >> it's it's really personal. I mean a lot of the dialogue is straight from my growing up like that uh little speech the dad is like I'm a ch you know I'm a [ __ ] not a shink blah blah blah. That is what my mom said around the dinner table when I was growing up. I mean, it it literally was word for word what she said. She was like, "I can't believe someone mis mistook me for a Chinese woman today." And then she went off on that diet tribe right there. So, I just grabbed it word for word from mom. You know, I mean, I was a kid, too, and I was like, "I love you, mom, but something seems really weird about your convers. This seems a little off and wrong, mom." I don't know. How did like I guess at that time and I don't know if you they've even seen it but Greater Asian America, how did they accept this? Because I notice in Asian-American cinema land you're kind of ignored. I hate to say and it's like because I'm familiar with it. >> Yeah. U you know, a lot of people have asked me like in general, did the world hate this project? Who hated it the most? What group? I would have to say Asian-Americans. People in my team. No, it was it was really messed up because uh when I unveiled this movie, I would actually have fellow Asian-American filmmakers coming up to me at the screening saying, "Why did you do that? Why didn't you make a documentary about your ancestors who came over? Why don't you make something about, you know, sugarcane?" And and they and no, the whole it was sort of like you have ruined our dignity as a people with this project. I mean, I got a lot of flack from the Asian community and people were offended. It it would mostly Asian-Americans. It was really I I thought I would be heralded like the new like yellow spikely like holy moly. He kicked the door in. He was or even like black exploitation stuff from the 60s like you know like the van peoples like he kicked the door open. It was outrageous. It was shocking. It offered no solutions but damn it gave us the issues right you know front burner on the table. And I I honestly felt the Asian community would have my back and be like holy moly we have a radical work radical filmmaker. were trying to destroy racism, blah blah blah, but it was the opposite. I was absolutely shocked. Uh, you know, there was like no yellow brother sisterhood. >> We like Well, not what, sir? >> We like to Yeah, Eric. Sorry, it's just a scene. >> I'm going to turn it over to the audience after uh another question, but this goes back to So, what did you think? What did you make of the Giant Robot project when Eric talked to you about it? And what did and then as Giant Robot grew like how did you see yourself in your work in relation to the work that the Eric and Martin were doing? >> Oh, that's a that's a good onlogical question. Uh I when Eric approached me, he was like, I'm going to put out a magazine, a fanzene. I want to interview you for the first issue. And then he pitched me the idea. He said, it's going to be like Asian Asian-American culture, music books, cool stuff, art. And I remember telling Eric, I said, first of all, I'll do this. I'm totally honored. want to do the interview. But I remember looking at Eric just saying, "Don't do it, man. You're going to run out of material after an issue or two." I mean, I was so wrong, but I just was like, "Eric, there isn't much Asian stuff in the world. It it it just doesn't exist. You can't find it." And I I I even remember saying to Eric, like, "Why don't you just drop the Asian thing and just do a magazine about like do some music reviews and bands and cool interviews, but just drop that Asian part?" And he was sticking to his guns. And I'm so happy that I was completely wrong. >> Thanks. >> Well, so what was but what was and so um you know what was your uh uh Well, let's turn it over the I'm let me turn it over the audience. Get some questions from the audience. Uh so we're going to bring uh a mic to you and I point to you and then wait for the mic to get you. So right there in the center. Right there. Yeah. >> Hello. Um, I just want to make a comment first, but I really enjoy how you take like cultural context and and like use absurdity to like filter them >> really >> in a form of communication. >> Thank you. >> This I feel like there's so much like content now like like just like ever where you take like a feeling of like subjugation or like ill treatment and you just like deliver it on a plate as it is. >> Yeah. But I feel like people feel those feelings so absurdly and so like viscerally. It's like much better in my opinion to take that feeling and blow it up to something so absurd than just to deliver it on a plate. >> Yeah, I I agree with you. I'm not into this like plate serving issues where it's sort of like here it is. You guys accept it and figure it out. I'm I'm I'm all for like making it outrageous and bigger than it is and blowing it up and making it a spectacle just to bring the issues to the forefront, you know? It's I mean, you can't deny after you see this. You can't deny that there are stereotypes about Asians and these this is what they are. Uh yeah, I I'm with you. I like art. I like uh I guess expression that's sort of more in my face a little more extreme, you know, and it could be just coming from punk rock background music. I that's the stuff I like, you know. >> Another question from the audience. >> One thing I wanted to mention too. Oh, go ahead for the next question. But meanwhile, um, did you keep the sets at all? The wood. So, for example, the the the red, uh, Kazumi's room, that art, that graffiti in the background is by Barry McGee. >> Priceless artwork. >> I was going to say that I think he's >> If you had all that, if you had all that, it's worth more than your budget today. >> If I had that artwork, I would be driving home to my fourth house in Malibu tonight, honestly. >> So, Barry McGee's had a solo exhibition here at the Hammer Museum, and the Hammer collects his work. I know that. And uh you had a whole we it's it's outrageous. Here's another just my life is full of these fuckups and these pranks and they're just really big mistakes and I love them all because they're just so funny. But out of these mistakes I've sort of created an identity. I It's sort of interesting. >> But it's interesting because I was watching the film and I I noticed the the you know the art decoration for Kazumi. I was like actually this film is really a microcosm of everything Giant Robot became. I mean, everything music v you music, movies, you know, um, uh, visual art. I mean, it's pretty amazing. >> Yeah, it really is. >> You didn't think it was going to fly. You had everything in here. >> Sort of connects. It's I love it when life does it. I It's a sign you're doing the right thing. Uh, but as far as that artwork up, our production designer, Jennifer, she she was like scouring the street. She was like, I want the bedrooms in this house to be have graffiti on the walls. And so, she found these two artists. Like one was a horse. It was a woman named Reminisce. And then she was like, "There's this weird artist named Twist who's going out tagging and doing these really cool pieces." And I saw like she took a picture of it or something. So I saw it. So she tracked down Twist. I don't know how. And this was even before he was known as Barry McGee. He just had his like Twist name. And she hunted him down and he was like broke, struggling. And he's like, "Yeah, I'll do all those sets for 200 bucks." So, and he also was pretty funny cuz he was like, "I'll only do them if I can come in after the set is closed." so no one can see me doing it. I can be the only person there. Like I never even met him. I would just show up at the set in the morning and look at the new work and get really stoked. So yeah, we create he created all these sets and uh we were on a really tight schedule. So we had to turn that bedroom into another set into another room. So we ended up like just getting primer and painting over all of Twist's artwork, you know, the zillions of dollars worth of art. And then we splashed green paint on that, filmed something else. And uh to this day I I think about it and it's like, yeah, we should have I mean they were 4 foot by 8 foot boards. I think he did 10 of them for us. So we're paying him 20 bucks per piece >> and we had 10 of them and we painted them over and u I think it's it's really funny. I have all these great pictures and slides documenting this stuff. But again, I mean I I mean there's so many I if I had the m uh wrong mindset, I could just examine my life and just feel so bad about all this stuff, right? I mean, you would maybe, but uh I don't know. I I at this point I realized I wouldn't change any of it and and ultimately it's like really entertaining and funny for me. And I I still stand by some of these things I most of these things I did. So, you know, I'm cool with it. But I don't have that 4,000 m. >> Don't change the thing. Well, no. No. It definitely still works. Any other questions from the audience? Another question. Oh, right here. Wait, there's a mic coming to you. >> Hi. Um, I was just wondering because the way the characters deliver their lines is so strange and unnatural. And I was just wondering like if you remember what your direction was for the actors with that or if they had some input in that or what that process was. >> Absolutely. My idea was that I would take like a the the I guess the concept behind this was taking like a whole season of a soap opera and compressing it into like 57 minutes or whatever. I mean I remember as a kid watching soap operas and I would be tuning in to some show and I would like forget about it for a couple weeks and I go back and turn it on. It's like wow they're still in the same room. It's like 10 minutes later. No, I I was like I mean there there certain elements of soap operas like the intrigue and the you know the the twists and interwoven text you know narrative and stuff I love but there they were just too slow moving for me. So I was like this is going to be like a compressed action-packed soap opera and also I I really wanted the actors to deliver their their performances in a like a more soap opera styled way. I mean, I know soap operas, they they're really under these strict schedule. So, a lot of times the actors are like learning the scripts the day they're shooting. And so, I I really wanted the actors to almost like have a less dramatic actor feel and more of a like just like you're on TV, you're in a soap opera, make it entertaining, make it sort of cheesy. I mean, especially like the Holly character, she did such a good job with, you know, bringing the cheese up a little bit and making it feel almost like, I don't know, like an afterchool special or something like that. I really wanted to give it a really off-kilter edge just grabbing like weird different things from TV, you know. >> So, I was going to go back to that question about as sort of Giant Robot grew and its influence sort of like expanded. I mean, we're very much, I think, uh, living in the, you know, I think I think Giant Robot is one of the themes from last night in the whole series is just sort of blew open the whole sort of like idea of Asian-American culture and that and and but alternative Asian-American culture and and what what Giant Robot was like highlighting is now everywhere, you know, and or it seems it feels everywhere. It's not that everything's perfect and there's still challenges. So I'm I'm curious now from in retrospect how you could you know how you see yourself in that larger sort of like you know the larger awareness of AsianAmerican culture and the challenges you still see today for say young Asian filmmakers who want to sort of do the punk rock thing. >> Wow that's a that's a deep one. Why don't you take that Eric? >> Well I mean you could both you could both in I mean >> well I think for me it's DIY still just do it yourself. I mean, John's like a great example of that, especially with the earlier movies, your earlier films that are like some of them are shorts and those are like so DIY, but then this version that's like got the biggest budget, it still has that in there to me. Even though you've had to spend all that money and whatnot, it still has the same aesthetic, you know, to its core, it's still in there. And uh but I think that's kind of part of it is just DIY, follow your vision, you know. >> Yeah. Uh I don't know. I there was a moment with Giant Robot u I would say maybe the late 90s maybe 97 where I woke up one morning and it hit me. It was really huge and profound. I I had never felt this before in my life but I woke up, you know, I had my giant robot magazines lying around and I I actually woke up and I said, "Wow, right now it's really cool to be Asian or Asian-American." And I was like, "This has never happened before for me or maybe the world." And I was like, "Giant robot actually made the world appreciate this stuff and curious about it and hungry for it." And I thought that was really really rad cuz uh I grew up in pretty sick times with pretty sick anti-Asian stuff going on like on NBC and ABC and stuff like that. But yeah, it it was a cool moment where I was sort of like, "Yeah, things can get bad, things can get good." But it's almost like when Nirvana broke. It was a moment where you know things can go back to bad. But it it's a milestone moment where you know the underground the independent suddenly burst out. It I thought that was a beautiful moment when Nirvana burst out. And same with Giant Robot. It's these moments I think that society changes, the world changes and people sort of hold on to it and remember it. And even if things get [ __ ] up again, we can always use these as reference points. And you know >> this is a very needed reference point tonight this weekend. But I'm glad you say it got [ __ ] you know, like it gets [ __ ] up again because that's what I always think. I'm like, "Oh yeah, we were good for a minute and then it gets [ __ ] up again." Like that that part that's really important to remember the [ __ ] up part. So, >> but I I think with the reference point, even when it gets [ __ ] up, you can be like, "Wow, remember the good old days in 97 when it was cold be Asian? Oh my god, we can try to redo that again, but at least it existed." So, you know, there's something to go back to instead of, you know, there's no antecedent. There's nothing. There's no no structure there. up which is why it's so great that giant robot exists you know existed and really shook things up and I I think created like a cool plateau to be Asian on and you know we can go up it's really great but before I I honestly feel before Giant Robot there was not a cool plateau to be on and that's why I got into punk rock I was like man I'm really good at math got double 800 you know GRE and [ __ ] like that on the math section For real? >> You did? >> Yeah. I got I My mom, she bet me. She was like, uh, I was in college and she was like, "You should go to law school and, you know, get paid to talk." And I was like, "I'm not going to do that. I'm going to make movies." And she was like, "Well, if you took a GRE, you'd probably like crash and burn. There's no way you would do well." And I was like, "I'll bet you 100 bucks I can do really well without training or whatever." And I did really well. And so she owed me a hundred bucks. >> I too was good at math. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Surprisingly. We have another question from the audience anywhere. Let's see. Oh, right here in the middle. Let's bring a mic. >> It's coming from this side over here. >> Sorry about the lights. It's a little intense. >> Um, great film. Thank you so much for sharing it with us. >> Thank you so much. Um, so I guess I have a question for you about um, like as I get older, I'm always thinking about like how do I stay true to like who I was when I was younger and that >> you don't want to lose a child, right? >> What was that? >> You don't want to lose a child, >> right? Right. Um, and I guess like the excitement for life and the grittiness and stuff. So I guess I'm I'm wondering um, for both of you, how do you sort of keep it fresh as you get older? like channel that part of like um the sort of stuff you guys were making when you were younger and Yeah. like you know >> but luckily I don't make a magazine anymore. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So there is that there is that. But I always I kind of think >> I'm going to make something like I'm going to make a publication of some sort. Like I've been thinking about it like almost every day for the last two months. But uh >> and I think it it's only going to be better. I hate to say like it's it's not going to get worse. It's totally going to be better than it was then. That's my opinion, too. So, I don't know. I I for me, I just think I'm just always looking at things. I work with a lot of young artists as it is. So, I'm always seeing a lot of things that are new, fresh, and interesting. I mean, there are certain parts where um my age will show. Like, I'm just going to straight up be like, "No, I don't want to do that. I'm too lazy, you know, I'm too old." Right? But at the same time, I think that there's other things that I do see as an older dude. I'll see other things that I think are interesting that I wouldn't have seen as a kid. So, I think it works both ways, too. I think uh you to stay young or keep this spirit uh you've got to find something in life you really for real love and you want to do like a passion and for me it was movie making so you know that's been really cool and also be prepared for this passion to change like a certain point you might be like my passion has changed I don't have a new one I've got to find one I think that's part of the key to hanging on to stuff I think also the fact that you're question how old are you 24. >> Oh, cool. Okay, cool. I'm I'm sorry. I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'm just trying to gather it all up. I'm so sorry. Uh, >> no. >> I I think uh just the fact that you're this young and you're asking this question means you're going to be okay. >> Honestly, like I wasn't questioning when I was 24. I was just like, I want to get famous, make some money, make some cool ass movies. Yeah. I I was not like this generation is so magically deep. I mean, some of the thoughts you have, your 20-year-olds out there, I'm like like maybe in five years I'll have that thought. I'm I'm serious. The fact that you're you're this age and you're like, man, I want to hold on to my youth and have a good life and hold on to this energy and the spirit. You're there. You're going to be fine. Honestly, I I believe that. Okay. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> I mean, a question wasn't directed to me, but I for me it's like John, exactly what you said. Like for me, it's like the only way to stay young or at least maintain that fear is to roll with the change. And if you try when if you try and go back and and recapture what you did at the beginning because it was so cool. You that's when you're going to be the oldest. That's when you're going to seem the oldest and the most out of touch. It's just rolling with that change. So >> yeah, I mean I think it's like what Eric was saying. It's like a lot of times in the world when you find success at something you do, you're supposed to continue it until you die. I mean uh really I know filmmakers who have come up with a hit movie and then the rest their next 10 movies they they sort of have to mimic that hit movie just they put the pressure on them themselves the studios put pressures on on them they have to make money blah blah blah and that's dangerous so just like Eric being I I have this very successful magazine this publication it's over I'm going to figure out something new now I mean that that's healthy that keeps you young that really does >> yeah just reinventing but also just keep on going you know >> and you'll find I started at 25. So you're 24. I started at 25. >> Time to start your empire for real. Like whatever it is, like get your your words and thoughts out and just rock. For real. You can do it. You will. I know you will. >> Another question over here. >> Hi, I'm a student at Cal Arts and I had multiple classmates tell me to check out your work because they knew that I would fall in love with your work and now I have your filmography and I'm just totally obsessed in making a film very inspired by you. Who were some of your biggest influences? >> Man, it's funny. I mean, I have a couple of filmic influences, but I'm really not not much of a movie lover or fan. It's It's crazy. I haven't seen like a movie in like five months now. Uh, it's crazy for real. I've just been watching a Alaska what what is it? Alaskan Bush Family. I I don't I got sucked into that [ __ ] Uh, but as far as my influences, I I've been influenced by a lot of weird literature. I love writing like a French new novelist and weird [ __ ] like that. Uh, and music, music was what kicked my ass into gear. I mean, uh, when I discovered punk rock music and hardcore music in my, uh, in high school, it just, the music itself had so much passion and raw intensity. It, it just blew me away. It was sort of like what you lack in precision and equipment and production, you more than make up with just the attitude and this just this passion to express. Uh, so music has been my biggest influence. Uh, and then when I started making movies and started getting my production company started, I I sort of modeled it all after uh all these small like independent record labels like Discord and SST and, you know, uh, Touchand Go, whatnot. And I sort of looked at my movies as being almost like rock and roll. Uh, I I decided early on to put a lot of bands in my soundtracks because I figured that I could use the bands and their names to help sell the movie because the actors, no one knows them. So if I get a really cool band that the world knows, that'll help sell the movie. So I treated the bands like the stars of the movies. But yeah, music has been my big biggest influence. Not only the sounds, but just how a lot of these like punk rock small labels have gotten their music out to the world on their own terms really cheaply and economically like that. I that's what I've tried to mimic with my film making. how to self-distribute, how how to get stuff into theaters with not without dealing with the [ __ ] of middle people who are going to take away most of the money, you know. >> Thank you. >> John made me a mixtape. Do you remember? >> No, I don't. >> Oh, >> so it's like Yeah, it's like I think you mailed it to me and it was a mixtape of bands from New York. So I think you you wrote in pen and it was really >> It says New York City trash and you and basically like you know like basically he's senpai here, right? and Senpai made me a mixtape and I was like, "Notice me." Right? And he did, right? So, he mails me a mixtape and um it's a tape that I listen to a lot and it had like all these bands that I didn't know like like Dust Devils, Cop Shoot Cop. I mean, there all these New York bands that were like Lower East Side, like kind of punk rock, kind of like grindy, you know, really arty grindy music. And um I I didn't know of it. And he sent me this tape that had it all on there. But I remember that's just eye opening and I knew that yeah he's really into music. >> Yeah. I mean I I there's such an immediiacy to it and uh I play in a band and do some music but uh it's it's really an antidote to film making. So if any of you are filmmakers like do music. I mean you can you know it might take you three years to finish your movie but you can write and record a song in one afternoon. So it no it really is like you're you're you're slaving away. You're grueling away on that movie and you can just take a little break and actually have a mini project you can actually complete it. It keeps you sane and then you can go back to the movie. >> So I got to wrap up. I have one more question because I meant to ask this earlier but I feel like I have to ask it so that he gets his due. The actor who in the bed who played the grandfather can >> Yeah. >> Give us a little detail on >> Lenny Lang. All right. So that dude was actually a huge actor in China. Huge. Like he was one of the imperial court actors like like big deal. And so we were looking for like an Asian-American to be grandpa in the bed. And it it's like a thankless role like like character's sort of in a coma. So you're sort of lying there. On the other hand, it's a really easy role of SAG. So he got paid like 250 bucks a day to do that and free food. But uh long story short, he first jumped to the project like wow this, you know, and he was really into his like uh imperial acting and his acting chops as you know entertaining in the court in China and stuff. And so he was really gung-ho about the movie, but after the first day of shooting, he was starting to hate it. And yeah, just he he hated the production. I wrote him a line where actually at the end of the movie, the grandpa shakes himself out of the coma, sits up and says like, "I'm hungry. I need a cheeseburger." And that's how I wanted to end the whole thing. And we tried it and it did not work. So we got rid of the footage. And so he was really bummed out cuz that was his one speaking line and I cut it out of the movie. And but um Eric was saying or that he you saw him like a a ton of the screenings or something. >> Oh. >> Or no that was Ken Narasaki. Yeah. The ground. >> But you me you mentioned in the interview in Giant Robot that he hated the movie. >> But yeah, he came like he came to the premiere and then he hated it. But then there's another screening like a week later and I was like but he showed up again. He was like really dressed up in his like you know his outfit and he did that a few times. So, I mean, I guess he hated the movie but wanted to get the fame or something. I don't know. But yeah, it was it was I don't like it when actors are uncomfortable and he was really uncomfortable on the set and he was the only person who stepped forward as an actor who would do the role. So, >> but now he's a punk rock icon. So, yeah, >> John, it's such an honor to have you on stage here. Thank you so much, Eric. >> Welcome everybody. Thank you. I love you, LA. And seriously, uh, I'm all on the internet. If seriously, if anyone like filmmakers or people out there, you just have a question or you're you're making a movie and you hit a problem, just seriously email me. I will answer. I used to teach and profess film [ __ ] in colleges. And I don't do that anymore, but I miss the students in the connection. So, you know, I'm out there. I really am out there. Okay. >> Where can we find your email? uh johnitsugu.com and then you go there, hit contact and you're talking to me. Yeah, it's a the website needs some updating but just try to ignore that. >> Thank you so much J. >> Thanks everybody. Thank you. Thank you.