NFO-117 (AV10617): US Farm Report: Under-Payment to Agriculture

welcome to us farm report brought to you and the interest of Agriculture rural business and the well-being of our nation by members of the national farmers organization in this listening area who are indeed glad to have this opportunity to present to you some of the leaders from our nation's capitol today our special guests we have United States Senator George McGovern from the state of South Dakota congressman W.R. Pogue from the state of Texas congressman Pogue is the new chairman of the House of Representatives Committee on agriculture senator McGovern a former food for peace director is a widely known member of the Senate agricultural committee to open the program here is Senator McGovern congressman Pogue gets a pleasure having served with you on the house agricultural committee a few years ago to share this program with you today I know there are good many people who have followed your efforts on behalf of agriculture over the years that are mighty pleased to see you in a position now as chairman of the House agricultural committee where you can provide even greater leadership than you have in the past I was talking with the senator Ellender the other day about American agriculture and about the role of agriculture in our national life he said that when he first came here to the Congress back in 1937 some 30 years ago that the agricultural committee was the most desirable committee for members to get on in the end the Congress with the possible exception of the probe the Appropriations Committee but there was a great competition among congressmen and among senators to get on those agricultural committees whereas today the for various reasons we sometimes have to persuade members of Congress to go on that committee and yet has been my feeling that agriculture continues to be a mighty important part of our total American economy and I wonder if you'd want to comment on that general thing well I am interested in senator elders statement so I came here the same day he did and as well remember that I couldn't get on agriculture committee I I had to wait until Marvin Jones who was then chairman of the committee went on the court before there was any opportunity that I could get on there was a big demand for the Agriculture Committee I we had a pre organization meeting this morning over in the house I'd coach committee we're gonna have 16 new members that's almost half of our total membership and as you say most of those photos made no effort to get on they were simply placed on the committee by the ways Means Committee and that is but a reflection of the public attitude I think the public isn't taking the interest in agriculture that they were 30 years ago and that in turn I think stems from the fact that our public has as I see it pretty well decided that American farmers are going to feed them come what may in it they don't need to be bothered about agriculture and that farmers are small part of our population so why be concerned the fact that farmers are small part of our population but proves as I see it I the success of American agriculture back when George Washington was president of these United States it took about three people in the country to feed one man in town and you simply couldn't build big cities today about one man in the country can feed probably something like 40 in town there's a tremendous increase in the ability of individual farmers to feed the people in town that has grown out of I see it the use of modern techniques the farmer is more productive each individual by far than he ever was don't you think congressman that sometimes our friends in the in the cities and then they are our friends what they don't realize the enormous advantage that this country derives from the fact that were able to feed our population with a rather small percentage of our labor I think the last figures I saw were that about six percent of the American people make their living in agriculture that is they're in full-time farming and that that those six percent feed the other ninety-four percent of us better than people are fed anywhere else in the world and that my judgment gives us an enormous asset in a world where most of the people don't have enough to eat well of course and people don't realize that we couldn't have big cities were it not for that fact support it took three people in the country to feed one man in town as it did 200 years ago suppose it took that now you couldn't have two million people here in Washington and its environment have four great cities like New York and Chicago they couldn't exist because there couldn't be enough people in the country to provide the food for them the only way in the world you can have these big cities is to have a productive agriculture now this productive agriculture isn't simply the result of the fact that these people are working harder and longer they're not working longer they're actually working less time even you and I probably worked longer when we were boys than most of them are doing now but they're using a great many inputs in agriculture that science is developed a for we're using more common phrases were using fertilizer insecticides and we're using water power all of those things that in spans one man's ability it lengthens his arm it strengthens him but you can't use those inputs in agriculture unless you've got the money to pay for them because they're all terribly expensive a fertilizer a good investment we all know it but if you haven't got the original money to pay for the fertilizer you're not going to make the investment hey we all know that in most cases some kind of mechanical eye power is a good investment but you're not gonna use it unless you've got the capital or can borrow the capital to buy it most of us know out in your country in mind that that water is a good investment Oh but I've got a farm with and I've got four wells on it but I don't put them there all the time because unless I can get a pretty good price from our products it don't pay me to pump those wells and I've got that got the figure that I'm going to get back something more than the cost that I put into pumping those wells and that's true with every segment of agriculture as I see it unless farmers can get a 20th century price for what they growing they can't use 20th century methods of production and if they're going to use 19th century methods of production then our food production our fiber production is bound to fall or people in our cities are bound to be thrown back on a antiquated living standard that's not as high as we would like to see them have I think that you've simply got to pay enough the people of the world have got to pay enough to the producers of agricultural products to enable them to get and use this modern techniques Congressman Pogue along that line it's always struck me as a little bit odd that people think nothing of paying two three or four times as much for an automobile today as we did let us say at the beginning of World War two or during World War two and yet if there's any increase at all in the price of wheat or corn dairy products are the things that the farmers have produced we hear all kinds of talk about inflation and about the rise in farm prices as though it's somehow a kind of an odd phenomena for farm prices to go up a little what everything else is going on going up all right I think that we saw that experience here a year a year and a half ago when farm prices firmed up a little bit not very much but there was a there was a substantial increase or a noticeable increase in some of our farm commodities and immediately a good many people started talking about buyer strikes and talking about inflationary pressures in agriculture and there were all kinds of dire predictions about what was going to happen if we didn't hold down the prices of Agriculture or as I gather the they trusted what you're saying is that the farmer has met his fair share of the national income of course not to take wheat it's selling for less today than it did 17 years ago it's selling for less I said you've got two dollars and 25 cents a bushel some 17 years ago for wheat and even with all of the government payments you're averaging out about daughter an 80 to a dollar and 85 cents a bushel this year on or last year on wheat and without the in with the government payments not covering a large part of the crop this coming years gonna be even less and yeah that's less than we got 17 years ago and yet the price of bread is twice as high as it was well not only the price of bread but the price of the tractor the the price of the combine the the price of the the chemical fertilizers the the price of labor virtually all of the costs that go into the production of that wheat have been moving steadily up at the same time as you point out wheat prices have not yet reached the level where they were 20 years ago and cotton's not selling for as much as it was even with the government payments now there's a nine and a half cent payment at least on part of the cotton you grow it's not on all of it by any manner means you some people think but all part of it but even with that cotton is not bringing with him seven cents of what it bought 15 years ago Congressman Pogue if I can take you to another aspect to this problem you've just come back from a rather careful look at the food and agriculture situation over in India I think we all recognize that what happens in India is of tremendous importance not only to us but to people all over the world it's sometimes said that the really crucial contest in Asia today is the question whether the people are going to go the Red China way or whether they're going to go the India way are they going to develop along a peaceful and democratic lines as we hope India will or will we see a kind of a violent dictatorial system that developed there that will get the support of most of the people of that great continent I think it'd be interesting to a good many people didn't know what you feel are some of the the basic problems that face India why for example has their industrial and economic development lags so far behind that of some of the countries in the West what do you see as some of the problems that are holding back that country and what kind of a challenge does that present not only to them but to us well George I think that of course we've all got taken me consideration the problems that we all know exists even though we can't do anything about them like the cow problem in India I don't think we're gonna solve that that's something people of India have got solved they've got 225 million head of cattle over there we've got less than half that amount in the United States I don't think we get 40% efficiency out of those cattle I mean by that that they don't get 40% of the benefit but they sure doubt all of them because most of the people of India won't eat them most of the people of India will starve rather than eat a cow they think might be grandma or some other dear relative and you can understand their feeling there I don't think we can change that that's a burden that they've got to carry for a long time to come I think they will change it ultimately but it'll take a long time basically as I see it their problem of course right at the moment their problem is the same is that that so often afflicts South Dakota and Texas and that is drought they've got in parts of India certainly up in the Ganges Valley where some of the finest land is they better very severe two-year drought they're on the second year of a terrible drought I've lived in some of that area and I claim that if I'm an expert in anything it is in dry weather quarter lived in that kind of a country and we know well versed on that and I think that they've got a bad drought going on in part of the country there are 28 million people in Bihar state alone those Indian states have got more people in them than most of the countries of the world they are suffering must recognize that but they're large parts of India where there's no drought we visited in South India where can the physical conditions are good and their crops are good but India has tried to do one thing that I think most of the developing nations are tried and you're lost more familiar with developing nation than I am you were down in Brazil on long enough to see what was happening down there maybe they didn't do it as badly as I think India is but India is trying to develop trying to move full scale into the mainstream of the 20th century skipping the foundation work that has to be done they hope to build steel mills they hope to build automobile factories they are building them they are doing these things without laying the foundation now I'm convinced that no nation on earth unless they happen to be so favored like Kuwait with their oil production ordinarily no nation on earth can build a firm industrial base until they have assured their agricultural base in other words the nation's got to be able to feed its people before it can put them in the industry cause the industry alone will feed the people I've always thought that if there's any one lesson any economic lesson that our country has to teach to the world it's that very point well we began with leaders a hundred and seventy-five years ago that really believed that the the foundation of our society was the small farmer yeah small land holder I think it was Jefferson that said the small land holder is the most precious part of the state and he fully believed that until you had a strong healthy and well-established agricultural base you did not have a sound foundation on which either a democratic political society that could be built or a sound economy but as you say I think some of these countries have thought that they could jump over that stage a certain element the matter of fact that they could exploit the producers of food and take their savings take away their their profits keep the price of food down pull out the resources of of an already neglected agriculture and put that capital into building fancy highways and factories and and all kinds of sophisticated industrial development in India is doing that right now isn't it true though a congressman Pogue that they have begun to take a more last couple of years I was in India seven years ago and I had not been back there I think I can see decided change for the better in their attitude I think they are beginning through hard experience to recognize that they've got to I build a stronger agriculture and rely more on them selves I think there were some Indians who got the idea and there some who still have the idea that the United States will feed them that's one of the weaknesses of our program I think we do well good in trying to help people and I believe is you do that we ought to help people who need help but we've got to be very careful about letting people get the idea that we're gonna take them to raise them as we would say down home we can't we can't feed India or any other country permanently I we better feed ourselves we can do that at a reasonable price level but we can't feed the world and neither can any other country the people have got to feed themselves at home India has done exactly what you suggest there and I know other countries have done the same thing they have sought to lower the price of food products because their people wanted to buy food products and they say while we're helping the man in the city we're helping the masses of the people by keeping the price of wheat low let's raise the price of cotton we'll export cotton and we'll therefore raise the price of cotton because we want somebody else to buy it and pay us a lot of money now that's fine if you could if you could get that somebody else to pay you more for that cotton but he's not gonna pay you anything more in the world market anyhow and that the wheat when you try to depress the price of wheat to that Indian farmer or any other farmer he just not gonna grow wheat he's gonna go grow the thing you don't want I well you let the price go up and he's not gonna grow the thing you do want or if he does grow it he's gonna hold it for his own use and not put it on the market because it won't pay him a profit now the Indians are gonna have to pay more for wheat at home and they're gonna have to pay less for cotton I think they'd do well to be buying more cotton and growing more wheat do you know that the India is planting 20 million acres of land in cotton did last year that's approximate twice what the United States planted but they didn't grow they didn't grow a fifth is much breaker is we grow they grew less than a hundred pounds breaker we grew 525 pounds breaker I think Bob well I'd certainly agree with you that they've got some enormous problems and they have probably put the emphasis wrong at various times it's really quite encouraging to take a look at the priority that they've given in their current five-year plan to agriculture at least I was glad to see agriculture right at the top of the well I am - of course I hope they'll they'll follow through on that and I quite agree with you that we want to use our food for peace program or the food for freedom program we want to use that in such a way that instead of discouraging rural development in these emerging countries we want to use that as a catalyst to in a sense to prime the pump to give them more energy and more initiative to help themselves and I think through the the leadership that you and others provided in the Congress that we've drafted that new food for peace program in such a way that it has a greater emphasis on on self-help and should move us in that direction that's what we've tried to do and we've tried to do one more thing in connection with India and in connection with any other country that's seeking large amounts of help we felt and I'm sure you agree here that that the United States should not alone assume all of this burden that other nations in the world should assume it for that reason the little group that went over there this fall or winter recommended that we should call or India should call on other nations for assistance comparable to that which the United States was giving and that we should be in the position of being willing to match what we suggested we'd be willing to match what all the rest of the world together would do let the Soviet Union show good faith let West Germany show a good faith let Japan Canada other nations show their good faith Canada has put up four million tons of wheat I don't want to suggest that these people have been entirely lacking but that whatever they would do that we would do as much as all the rest of the world now it seems to me that that's a rather generous position to take and if we don't take some such position as that the Indians are just like other people there's to go to the place where they think they can make a soft touch and we're yet but if we say while we will match and I see nothing wrong in that I've seen many a campaign in church and in the college worked on exactly the same basis some folks say why we'll build a new church here and I'll put up 25% of all the money some wealthy man say that well now that's not a harsh attitude to take that's it that's an enlightened attitude this is an attitude that will get more help for the needed cause and we think that will get more help for India to take that kind of basis than to simply say well the United States is not gonna bother about what anybody else is gonna do I think we've got to consider what other people will do well I think that's an interesting observation and then one that certainly requires some careful thought and planning here Bob if I could take you to just one more subject area here we've got a few minutes left I was visiting with the editor of The Washington Post here the other day about an interesting view that he has on the relationship of our own agricultural problem to the problem of our cities and he made the the observation that one of the major problems in the great cities of the United States and I suppose this is true in cities all over the world is just the sheer problem of congestion the the strain on the on the roads the traffic tie-ups the the strain on recreational facilities the jam up in in housing the the pressure on all of the resources in our cities and he said in his judgement a good part of that has been brought on because over the last 20 years we haven't made agricultural life attractive enough and profitable enough to hold our young people on the farms and in the rural areas so he said in a sense the squeezing out of people from our rural areas from our rural states the the lack of economic opportunities for farm people particularly for young people that want to go into agriculture and the the literally the forcing of those people into the great cities of this country is really a double problem agriculture the agricultural problem not only not only hits the rural states but they spill over into the cities is complicating their problems I'm wondering how you why think that problem of the cities is even greater than that of the rural areas in regard to this failure to provide an adequate standard of living for rural people rural people right today are earning an income and that's including the big farmers as well as the little ones are earning an income of not much more than half well almost two-thirds I guess it's 60 percent as much as urban people are earning average over the United States well now obviously a very few of these people are going to be satisfied live out at the forks of the creek and earn two-thirds as much you say their city cousins are earning the result isn't they move to town I the rural areas lose their skills and their training and their education and those that were making a failure in the country move to town but course in town it's easier to get on the relief roll and it in the rural areas and I they come to town and whether they get on the relief rolls or whether they don't they increase the relief rolls of the city because if I move in from the country and you've got a job in town and I come in and I offer to work a little less some other way I get the job and put you on the relief for all it costs the city just as much as it does to put me on so it makes no difference to the city who goes on the relief roll the numbers go on there anyhow and you know I think if we learn a lesson from India on that I observed in India that these people even in the drought area to get this grain that we're sending over there they have to pay for it they have to pay enough in Indian currency to pay the cost of that grain I delivered and transported and distributed the only way in the world they can get that money is through Public Works but they do public works they don't hand anybody money but we saw them putting thousands of people working building big big levies big enough to drive a car down building them by hand scooping out the dirt tearing it in a little basket dumping it up here you'd think they'd never get anything done but they did now they all worked for it that's something we don't do if we required everybody who got on the lease to work we've cut our relief rolls in half and two and to I think Bob I think our hard time is just about expired I want to say it's been a pleasure to share this half-hour with you and I look forward to working with you here in the Congress to see what we can do although were somewhat out numbered by our city brothers to strengthen the cause of American agriculture thank you George pleasure to be with you u.s. farm report has been brought to you as a public service in the interest of agriculture rural business and the well-being of our nation we wish to thank our special guests on today's show the United States Senator George McGovern of South Dakota and Sherman WR Pogue of the House Agriculture Committee members of the national farmers organization invites you to tune in again next week for more facts on agriculture the economic gear wheel in our economy that produces most of our nation's new wealth