Men's Forum: Gender Communication with Andrea Center

and see if I'm gonna go see if we have more of these as well okay it's a few and I take one if you if you want a button if you're not a button person that's fine as well be right back hi can I have some of your buttons bless your heart yeah use it but there are more people than thanks yep okay all right okay hopefully now I have enough buttons for everybody that wants them if you want to take one and pass it that way as well all right I also have a we're doing like the housekeeping things at the beginning can you tell um I also have a little sign-up sheet here um this what this will commit you to just so I know everybody freaks out having to sign up for something I'm but you don't have to sign up what what it will do is you'll be informed of further events or meetings or anything like that involved with the with the Women's Center and most specifically if you if you are wanting to be a part of the men's outreach program for the people in the room then you know you can indicate that as well I'm so if you're interested in hearing more about the Women's Center through email and stuff like that you may sign up but in no way obligated - just because you're here yeah I guess because I'm a graduate student who works at the Women's Center my name is Andrea Connor and my main area is doing educational programs which you're taking part in today which is very exciting but I also do a whole bunch more whether that be in residence halls or in clubs or classes or things like that so um I have a few of these brochures that we can look at later if you're interested okay great so we're here to talk about gender communication right good that's good um since it is a program on communication that's mostly what we'll be doing there'll be no fancy PowerPoint presentation or anything like that except for this fancy technology I feel kind of excited about that so well mostly what we'll be doing is communicating and I'll need y'all to you know give me some feedback and we'll be talking about lots of different things and since you're also well-versed in language and gender I'm sure it'll be an enlightening discussion and we can learn something from each other I think that would be great so um let's see I just need one more thing on my person then we'll begin is everyone else chilly in here so just me just me okay I have a tendency to get the sniffles so I had to get a Kleenex here all right before we start I think you all know it's probably really important to clarify the difference between gender and sex right y'all talked about this yeah sort of anyway the way the way I define it so that when we have this conversation you know what you know where I'm coming from and what I mean um I feel I am well on behalf of the Women's Center we feel that gender is enacted it's not something that's inherent or just something that's natural or biological within you and we feel that then sex is a biological thing that that's the biological like body that you're assigned based on like your physical evidence you know what I'm saying so I'm sure you've all realize that this but as we talk about gender communication today it's going to be a very fluid thing because gender we believe is totally constructed by both yourself and Society so and communication as we talk about communication we feel that communication it's a human behavior and it's something that's essential to all of us as we go through our lives and I think what my goal for the program today is is to help us all include myself learn how to become a better communicator with people of my own gender and of other genders as well and I hope for hopefully we can help you all learn a little bit more today too so the first big question our men really from Mars and women from Venus what do you think no no no why not I've worried if you did how about what does anyone else have an opinion on that one well the implication of that given that there's a basic fundamental biological between the sexes and you have this range of possible genders that the sexes can fit in - okay ultimately whatever your sex or your gender you're a human being mm-hmm and that is the overriding dominant factor for me and for a lot of you know men and women I know at the same time sex can play a role sam of a very large role and in some issues is going to be more up to sex and other issues it's going to be more up to gender but the way I feel in most issues is mostly up to being human I agree with that and as we and as we talk about that I mean one thing that I have here in my notes is that researchers generally kind of throughout the years has really shown us that of course there are differences but really men and women are more alike than we give ourselves credit for I think I think we complicate issues sometimes by thinking good Lord I'm so different from that person I just I can't we can't communicate we can't get on the same page and really we're a lot more alike than than we we tend to think does anybody have any ideas of why like we have tended to view men and women as opposites for so long this is interactive you know being mostly male the way I did resulting from a history of male hegemonic old culture want people to think that way to keep women oppressed more than anything yes so mostly it's been something that kind of people have just sort of been telling us over the years it was so different were op effects anybody else not many people would get away with that mein mainstream people don't actively at least think that way I agree with that and then sometimes a scary side note to that is there are some people who feel that way but do it in very subtle kind of non noticeable or unnoticeable I think would be the way to say it ways you know and there there may be more than we think but they aren't you know being all blatant about it you know so sometimes that's something that you know watch out for what kinds of as we start our discussion on communication have you all experienced some problems when when men and women will communicator can we toss out some examples as some problems that men and women just have in general when we communicate with each other maybe anybody has an example or maybe you're all just so well-versed in communicating with the other judge there that you're just so good at it a lot of times a man will say something hungry and then a lot of to infer a lot from that yeah that's that's definitely that's definitely true I'm something that we were good you know gonna talk about this is a great segue is that in conversations it tends you know a pattern that tends to happen not something that we should stick to rigidly or anything but something that tends to happen is that in conversation men tend to make more statements than questions and so when you know when women are trying to you know keep the conversation going per se then they take those statements and then try to make it something more than just a statement because women tend to maybe ask more questions in pursuit of a response for lots of different reasons that I'm sure we can go into but so that's definitely one of them that a simple statement or something could can be taken uh something completely different that's a good example anything else I just occurred to me an example out of my life that I'm sure there are many but the one I can think of I was I was standing in front of the door of the building smoking a cigarette and inside the meeting of this this organization I belong to this woman member walks off and it's right before we're supposed to start and I'm smoking outside the door and I'm the only one visible and she goes just was the door locked and it was just you know a total assumption on her part and it's a particular key with me that you know what people assume things I I I said I said something smart but that's just an illustration of a communication problem I had with someone and I chose to aggravate it rather than to because of because of that key that I thought would people make yeah I think that's a good example of you know how assumptions can hinder our you know hinder ourselves and there are lots of different types of assumptions things like you've mentioned and assumptions as far as whether whether the person that you're speaking to is heterosexual or whether the person that you're speaking to is married or whether the person that you're speaking to is well those are just some examples but we we tend to define our relationships with others through this communication through talking with each other that has so much to do with our relationships with other people and most of you intimate relationship right now that might be the great like a great part of your relationship or a great source of frustration for you all I know it's happened to me and a big thing that we can talk about today is how gender stereotypes influence the way that communication works how the things that you know that we've maybe been taught or the things that seem to be true how those affects how we communicate with other people so as we talk about gender stereotypes we can talk about things like things that tend to happen like we're talking about women tend to kind of ask more questions probably you know in my opinion you know if they're trying to pursue the conversation a little bit more because you know they'd like it to extend a little further and and and then like we mentioned do tend to do a little bit more a statement oriented conversation and so that's even that and its simplicity is something that we can remember as we work with each other and talk with each other let's see do you think do you think that a female's perception of the world is shaped in some degree by the words that we use to think and to talk about the like the environment or the office or things like that I've got some a little bit yeah sure basically to put it a little bit simpler I basically started to talk about gender biases in the language like in our speech with each other and I'm just wondering if you if you all think that the way a woman maybe looks at the world is through the women and men actually the way they look at the world is through kind of the speech and the language that we use with each other for example the biggest example I think is the generic key when someone says he do mean he meaning males or do you mean he meaning like just some generic person that we don't know the gender of source of a huge amount of miscommunication with people in writing as well because that's one of the things where if you're gonna if you're gonna use a generic key for all genders it really needs to be specified so that we all know what's going on you know so we know what's so that's a big example of it do you all feel affected by that do you feel men and women do you feel like you know the things that exist in our English language you know hinder our communication sometimes example I went to a meeting where someone gave a terrific cock using the generic sheet oh yeah II didn't say keepeth using it generically over the end so it was hilarious and she did it on purpose but it really pointed out yeah you know the assumptions we made abstract yeah that's true and the majority they said that 20 females and one male huh oh wow because there is one right over the majority wow that's very interesting we don't yeah that's okay so so we always say cute rings yes really really so everything kind of has this implicit gender of maleness and the second thing this tried to change it she women would go out and say she right does that do do men understand what they're doing when they say that look does that makes any there's a life like when a woman says in French you know she rains and to a man does he see like you yeah yeah I'm kind of in the same situation you're talking about you know if you use that she has a generic it's like I'm sorry talking about women or what that's a very very interesting point on both accounts that happens in Spanish - I haven't taken Spanish for like four years I'd take it took it in high school but you know there are a lot of masculine things like why is that masculine I'm not really sure but everything has a gender some things are feminine - but like that group thing I think exist as well like if there's me there's one guy so I mean work samples right now you'll get another chance I'm gonna hold you back all right um I'm gonna give some more examples about how our language sometimes hinders us in our conversation and as I go into this I want to be fully upfront with y'all and let you know that when we try to be inclusive in our speech we're gonna hear from a lot of people about it we're gonna hear that we're being PC that we're just being stupid or whatever that comes from all sorts of people and I think that being PC is something that unfortunately has been grabbed onto and has been termed as a very negative action politically correct and so sorry thank you murder was found like oh yes being politically correct and I think that you know for you know now that it's happened there's not a whole lot to do about it but being politically correct now it seems as scene asked by a lot of people the weather you know no matter what politics they've believed in as a negative thing and that's unfortunate but we're gonna talk about for a little while ways to be inclusive and if you want to think of it as ways to be politically correct that's fine but just know that you know you'll you'll get a lot of flack about it I know that I do but to me being inclusive and having everyone that I'm that I speak to feel like I'm talking with them is more important than having somebody call me PC as a derogatory thing who cares it's more important to me that I reach everyone that ice that I'm speaking with so give that mine is we learn a little bit more about how we can um about how we can you know address our maybe sexist bias language or other things that we can kind of say it's instead but one thing as you all know women tend to in in the past and it's getting a little better tend to be defined in their relationship to a man you hear you hear a lot of and not near so much anymore but you all hear a lot of you know the wife of Earl Jones or mrs. Tom Smith or something like that it's just bugs the crap out of me because it's just to me it seems like she's not been her own person you know what I'm saying um doesn't happen near so much anymore it's that's really starting to get better and you know you know if you say mrs. Sally Smith normally I mean normally you have at least her name in there which is is good we talked about the generic heat and there's a lot of other things like that like Manning the office manpower man-made things like that and it's really really hard I mean I find myself doing that all the time and they're like oh geez you know maybe women made that link I don't know and so you know I've started to try to do things like human made something like that or you know or just like turning it around into staying a couple more words like you know people made that like you know as opposed to just man-made although it's quicker and it's going to take a lot for us to kind of address what we're saying I think it's worth it in the end um how about this whole deal about sexuality like a woman who's sexual or promiscuous has promiscuous is one of them and has all these kind of negative words about her but if maybe if a man is more sexually promiscuous maybe those those terms are a little bit more powerful know what I'm talking about anyone have an example you're like oh I do yeah well that's good no that's good I mean that's you know if somebody's you know over the edge I mean yeah that's good I could see you've made you've made the alteration to be like you know what they're both do the same thing one of those would be know one of them's male and that's that's great yay for you that's what I would say to that but you hear it a lot you know guys are player you know they're getting some woo you know and women are sluts they're whores whatever they're you know much more derogatory term so the inequality exists there as well but good job for everyone that's you know it's making adjustment so that um let's see some of the meanings of words have changed due to cultural change um like some of the things I mentioned we don't do mrs. Tom Smith as much as we used to also we don't talk as much about like Crohn's or spinsters or old maids as much sometimes old maids a little bit but when we talk about women who you know progressed into their older years without getting married a lot of times they're lesbian you know if they you know if they if they haven't gotten married that's automatic or something which is unfortunate but I think that it's that's that's one thing that's getting better I think that women who are older who haven't gotten married don't don't get called you know as much you know things as they used to one that one of the things like from my personal experience that bothers me most of anything and I just I this is me being um getting to use this time to like be angry about this one that drives me crazy he'll watch those late-night talk shows like Leno and Letterman they all do this when they're in one there I'm interviewing what I want to say bringing out their guest you know the men every single time I've never ever seen ever heard the difference the men are a justice it's a very funny the very talented Martin Short or whatever whoever we're talking about here they're very funny the very talented David Hasselhoff or something about their you know Talent and every single time a woman is brought out no matter what she does whether she's a singer she's an actor she's a comedian she's whatever she's always the very beautiful the very lovely MS Gwyneth Paltrow or whatever always next time you watch that watch it show like that watch that because every single time the man who's brought out is like they always do those little bit vary this to vary that in front of it for men it's always something about their career or their job or the very talented and the very flexible mr. flex on me on or whatever you know like it's always something about their talent and then for women no matter what they do it's always about how they look so check that out next time you watch some of us and if you see one that doesn't do that please let me know because I have yet literally have not heard one that hasn't been done that way so um so now that I'm done with my little rampage about talk-show intros I think it's important that we all know that you know gender stereotypes can hurt men and women and although most of the examples I most recently given are things that you know are sort of against women or whatever I think it's important especially for the men in the room to note that I'm I truly feel that it harms all of us you know missing communication with each other you know when you say man or mankind do you mean like males or do you mean females and even if women say that I think it's hard to understand you know what exactly is being meant so all of us can be time to buy double meanings with words and not understanding specifically what it is that the person is talking about um we hear we hear a lot about you know that women you know or men have trouble with intimacy they have trouble with communicating but the but the truth and reality is is that when men recognize that there's a need for intimacy in the relationship they try just subside as women do to meet that demand the reality is that I think if we could get rid of that stigma that men are the strong silent type and you know they don't like to communicate I think that that maybe you all have experienced that that's just really not always the case you know it's just really not and you know both both men and women don't like or have trouble with community communicating like when the relationship is just getting started you know that we both have trouble with that kind of thing it's all nervous and awkward and that kind of thing and both men and women try to avoid conflict at all costs like you might you know you might hear that well men you know are more aggressive and they're more I'm kind of out there and their communication but the reality is is that um both of us you know both the genders try to avoid conflict you know if possible you know we all you know we'll confront it if need be but we also hear that I'm maybe men aren't as supportive as women or things like that but that's also just a bunch of all because although you know although women by their nature and researchers from that they might be more in tune to needs of others if men realize it as well they're just as apt to give social support or give family support to people that they know so that's that's something to remember as well the gender stereotypes that we hear about men being you know strong and silent and not wanting to communicate not wanting to give support it's just not true and for those of you that are in the room who are taking a general in language or language in gender whatever course whatever it's called and you all probably realize that and so that that's one thing that's really important for us do you understand all right so now that I've given those kinds of examples who's who's got questions or who's a taken to talk about some certain example that they've had in their life that they want to talk about yeah like well one thing that surfaced earlier in the course was the different societies have different friends in respect to the linguistic usage between the sexes due to environmental reasons okay and so maybe what should I say that our teacher brought up an example of some tribes for I think it's beginning that reversed typical procedure when it comes to dressing or what is expected of people as far as aggression things like that for especially verbal aggression other things and some of these societies we're just either different or even the opposite from from say American yeah and what it made me think is that perhaps the sex difference is really very fine new and what causes our society American Society or European society or any given society to be the way it is is this environment nature/nurture controversy except in cases of severe physical handicap you know what's most important is is the nursery nomination you bring up an excellent point and you know it's proud of me to point out that our conversation today that I've led it has been unfortunately very European American centered like very you know European background living in America kind of thing and I'm glad that you guys brought up your example from France and the example that you just brought up as well in other cultures this could be a completely different story completely different so that's that's definitely something to remember thank you that I use like the phrase how are you guys doing and I use it all the time and I worked a lot with and doing outreach with groups of girls and it's kind of ridiculous for me to say are you guys doing when it's a group of girls yeah notice I'm in my own language and I've gone - how are you ladies doing are mean if I give a tour and it's a mom and a dad and the kid I said how are you folks doing or something yes that's great I think that as well and you y'all I was just about to say y'all might have noticed that I have started saying you all a lot and although it's not very grammatically correct and I'm not from the South they've been what sounds like it because I say you all the time III do have realized that I say you guys all the time partially I think as a compensation for like just being sick of like getting you know backlash of just being a group of women you know what I mean and so I just you guys was always so convenient and I I too have noticed that I say that quite a bit that's one of the kind of things down the line that we discover that that that we're saying deal oh boy yeah it's everywhere yeah yeah and it's like why you never hear someone say oh girl I totally missed my class so you know no you don't hear that at all very interesting how for so long you know the language was was focused on unmet yeah even even you you hear the the you know the most hardcore feminists saying that it was like that's so funny beer that coming from your mouth you know but I don't know what I don't know what else to say week and I'll just I mean we can all just come up with our own new expressions to say who was a like Bart Simpson didn't he had like a cowabunga or something let me say something new what I ever heard did I see a hand over here no someone was just stretching I guess yeah I'll I have a couple of handouts so we can talk about and then maybe that can spark some more have a great discussion from y'all should I start with here I've got some some guidelines to non-sexist language let's start this with this one you