Men in War | L.Q. Jones with Jan-Christopher Horak

[Jan- Christopher Horak] Mr. L.Q. Jones. [Audience applause]. [L.Q. Jones] All your relatives can hold it now. [Jones] Okay. [Jones groans]. [Jones] Gad. [Horak] So, L.Q. Jones...born Justice Ellis McQueen. August 19, 1927 An America actor. [Jones] Makes me about 32? [Horak] Huh? [Jones] Huh. Okay go ahead [Horak] Plus a few extra. Actually, uh, you got your nick, uh, name through through your first film role, right? [Jones] Yeah, the first part I played in "Battle Cry." [Horak] And that was... 1955? [Jones] Uh...four. It was released in five. [Horak] Released in five. [Jones] Yes, sir. [Horak] So...uhm... you at, you made another film with Anthony Mann too, didn't you? [Jones] Uh...no. Everybody here, I've done at least three pictures with but not Tony again. But, just you got a pardon me here, because I haven't seen the picture, Chris, for years and years and years. It ain't pretty... and it's not enjoyable. Is it, you know? Uh... But it's, it's something that a writer a director and two other... three other men, actually, really wanted to say and they said it. It's...it doesn't have the curlicues of most war pictures. Uh, I've done, good heavens... 16, 17 of those. Uh... [Horak] I read it was actually, uh, written by Ben Maddow, who at that point was blacklisted. And... [Jones] They had... [Horak] Philip Yordan was his front. [Jones] Yeah, they had to work it under another name. So...uh... I mean I didn't, I didn't have anything to do but and this was like my, I think, third picture I was ever in. So I've just kind of learned the business but boy I went to school watching these people work. Uh... Brian, you expected what he did. Aldo, you expected what he did. Bob Keith, same thing. But he took a bunch of really young people and made 'em work together. It's...may I just a second because you may not even know this... [Horak] Just go ahead. [Jones] Most of you know how pictures are made a lot of you do, a lot of you don't. But... normally when you go to work and you'll see a call sheet for the day and it'll say page 17 to 18, 42 to 46 and we'll jump all over the spectrum shooting the picture. Oh, you know, you just you just shoot trying to do the exteriors and keeping the interiors as cover sets so if you have to you can, you can you can jump into 'em. You get used to that. This is...I've done, they tell me, a hundred and thirteen movies and between three and four hundred television shows. [Audience applause]. This is...No, relative quiet here. [Audience laughter]. This is the only picture I have ever heard of, or certainly ever seen, that we started on page one and we shot straight through the script. Did you know that? [Horak] No, I didn't. [Jones] We had... [Horak] It was shot right here in one of the canyons in the Hollywood hills, right? [Jones] The one where you see the cave and all is up here in Bronson... [Horak] Bronson Canyon, right. [Jones] Uh...but it's, it's so what I say... it, it...you, you began to notice, I did, I'm sure all of you did too there's a rhythm that gets started and it grows as the picture goes through and that, I think, contributed mightily to that work of starting at the beginning and going straight through. Uh...I've never, have you ever heard of it happening before on a motion picture? [Horak] I think there, I can't think of any examples right now but there have been other examples. [Jones] They're probably have been yeah but... [Horak] Especially more recent examples. [Jones] It, it lends something to it. Don't really know what it is. But I thought maybe you'd like to know that for we got started because Tony did a heck of a job. They...your restoration people...are marvelous. I mean they deserve a hand. [Audience applause]. [Horak] Yeah...Scott McQueen, who's in the audience do you want to stand up? [Jones] Please, stand up for goodness sakes. Where are ya? [Horak] There he is. [Jones] Aha, excellent job. Truely excellent. [Audience applause]. [Horak] Uh, one of the things that impressed me is that uh Anthony Mann shoots the film so tight. I mean so many of the shots are really claustrophobic close-ups and, and part of the paranoia of the film is that that when you see long shots you don't see anything, and when you see close-ups that things happen, that come out of nowhere. [Jones] Well that was that's the way he believes war is... is done. If you've been in it that's the way it is done. Uh... but again, it's that rhythm that he installed and he does things that you can't get away with and he got away with them. It's, it's really a marvelous piece. Again, whether you enjoy it or not something else but it's, it's fun to look at. [Horak] How was it working with Robert Ryan? [Jones] I've worked with Bob three three or four times. He's an absolute nut. [Audience laughter]. [Jones] I mean he does everything right. You hate people like that. He's as tough as you see. Pardon me, I'm laughing here. We did the "Wild Bunch" together and... [Audience applause]. [Jones] Okay, we are... [Horak] We had to get to Peckinpah sooner or later. [Jones] Well you have to...but we're all staying in private homes. because there are no motels or hotels other than one and Peckinpah, the rat, has got that so we're all living in these houses. Now Bob is staying only he's, he's all by himself. He and Bill Holden. So he invites me over for dinner and fine and the lady that owns the house is cooking the meal. Now, here's this really tough man. He's really tough, right. She serves us a pepper dish that would raise a blood blister on the rough out boot. [Audience laughter]. And you, you watch Bob and you take your cue from him. She leaves, he takes the food and he throws it under the carpet because you can't eat it and still talk. Now that's that tough human being Bob Ryan. He, he also found out that this lady has a family of 27 or 28 children She's taking care of 'em in an orphanage and the way she does it is she cooks little bitty pieces of candy. You've seen little brown bars of candy about so long and she sells them and she sells for maybe 25 centavos, which is roughly about 2 and 1/2 cents, right? Bob sees what she's doing and so he has her cook about 10 of them and takes it out and he sells it to us. Peckinpah had to pay ten grand for his. [Audience laughter]. He knew I was cheap and so I only payed a thousand but when we got through she had raised $35,000 which took care of the kids for about five years. Now, That's a tough man for ya. [Horak] Those are $69 too, right? [Jones] Yeah, yeah. Not, not pesos, dollars. Yeah. Whew, tough man. Yes, sir? [Audience laugher]. [Horak] I thought you were just gonna keep on talking? [Jones] No, no, no, no I said. We need something. It's serious and I'm listening to you. [Audience laughter]. [Horak] So, do you have anymore stories about Anthony Mann in the way he directed actors. I mean, because, I mean it was one of your early films, right? [Jones] Yes, sir. Third or fourth. I forgotten which it is. Tony is, is... he's like William Wellman. He says what he wants to and he does what he wants to on the set. Uh... and you listen to him because he, he's prone to talk and tell you what he wants... by not telling you what he wants. He talks around it and you have to figure it out and we keep shooting until he gets what he wants. Now, but this to me is great fun because you saw where we did the shooting up here in Bronson Canyon? Okay. Now Tony, bless his soul, is not too religious I supposed would be the way to describe it. He can't say two words without a curse word intermingled. That's just the way, that's just the way he was. He had a...and she came on the set...a teenage daughter, like 13 or 14. His son, that I won a fortune from him playing gin, came along...he's about 18 or 19. Tony talks that way, I mean, he make a sailor blush. We got used to it. We come to this scene, this is toward the end of the...it is the end of the picture and we started, it's now like 11 or 12 o'clock in the morning, we have not yet turned on the cameras. They are burying the explosives. Putting all of us in place getting everybody on the hill, and he's sitting there he's really boiling and you can hear him curse for a mile and a half. But he's going on and gettin' something done. Not finally were getting very close but still not there and a little VW Microbus pulls into the set... right in the middle of the set. Well, the steam comes out of his ears and he's jumping up and starting to talk and the door opens up and two nuns get out [Audience laughter]. and they shepherd about seven or eight little key kids that are somewhere in the eight or eight or nine years old out of the van. We said, "Oh god. This is the end of us." He rushes down to them and we're waiting for the explosion and he, he bowed to the ladies, he shook hands with them, he invited him up to the camera. They sat. He put chairs down for 'em. He explained to the kids how you make motion pictures. How nice people are... he didn't even say..."heck." He went right along and we're there and we're...and the AD finally walks up and he says, "We're ready to go Mr. Mann" and he says, "Fine. Alright, let's get this goddamn thing shot," and he went to work and he cursed for 15 minutes. [Audience laughter]. It was beautiful to watch the nuns running. They were going so fast, the skirts were sticking out back. [Audience laughter]. That's to me is Tony Mann. I'm sorry. [Jones] Ahh...God. [Horak] What a great story. [Jones] Ahh...what a man...ahh... Shut up. Yes, sir. He's, he's like working with Scorsese. He never tells you, "No." You do what you think is right and if it is not exactly what he wants he'll come over..."You know, listen Q, I've been...." "what would happen...if" and he lays out what he sees for the scene. He doesn't say, "I want you to do this." He doesn't stop if you start doing something else. He'll start again and say, "Listen, what would happen..." again..."if." So... he gets everything exactly the way he wants it without telling you what he wants. And...it's, it's so you think you're doing it. You're not doing a damn thing. You're doing exactly what he wants you to do. [Horak] But that's a good director for you, right? [Jones] You bet. That's why you say to make William Wellman happy. Uh... he just gets it done. [Horak] Questions from the audience. I, we have microphones up at the top, so don't start talking until you get a microphone. Right here, over here. [Jones] There's one victim. [Horak] Yep. [Audience question 1] In 1956 I was 13 years old and my... [Jones] Congratulations for that. [Audience laughter]. [Jones] Wish we could do that. [Audience question 1] and my uncle, Irving Lerner, brought me to Bronson Canyon to watch a date shooting this film, So I'm extremely grateful that the preservation has been as outstanding as it is and I'm wondering I saw my uncle's credit on the screen as "Supervisor." Do you have any idea what he did on the film. [Audience laughter]. [Jones] No, I don't, but I'll tell you what. He damn sure did his job or he wouldn't have been there. [Audience laughter]. We were very short of money for the picture. It was very tight and the people you saw with the people they thought would give 'em what they wanted and so I may have, I may have sounded like I'm trying to be funny. I'm not. Because if he was on the on the set he was doing his job and doing it well. [Audience question 1] Well he worked with uh... that group on uh... several films and uh... and by the way, there is a little piece about I guess...on, on the Archives website questioning whether there was actually a Philip Yordan and whether it was not just a nom de plume for Ben Maddow. I can testify there was actually a Philip Yordan. He actually was a writer and was a front for Ben sometimes. [Horak] Thank you for that. [Jones] Yes, sir. Again, he did his job and I thank him for that. So did Phil. [Jones] Yes? [Horak] No other questions? Right over here. [Audience question 2] Thank you. I know it's a long time ago but can you recall how many days it took to shoot this film? [Jones] Not exactly but it'll be somewhere around between let's say four and a half and five and a half weeks. Which is pretty quick... damn quick. By...up to that point I had let's say I'd done three other pictures, the average time was four months. So five weeks is really getting it done but everybody was prepared. We had plenty of down time at the beginning. If you're really interested, I've got the script. I'll have to dig for it because I've got at home like five hundred and some-odd scripts but if you really want to know I...normally I'd do the script and put the shooting schedule in it. So I've got both of them. I'll look if you really want to know. [Horak] There's an offer. I'll give you, when we get through let me give you my phone number or you give me yours... please. [Horak] Right right down here. [Audience question 3] What sort of prep did he have you guys do to get into... uh... the great work you guys? Did you have a boot camp beforehand? [Jones] No, he told how much we're gonna be paid. [Audience laughter]. [Jones] That pretty well... that pretty well got you, you were ready by the time he told you that. Uh... no, but it's, it's... he, he got us into it whether we wanted to or not. For instance, normally, you're doing...any show, but you do a war picture and you come home in the evening, take clothes off the laundry picks them up and they're clean. You have them next day. I think mine got washed once in five weeks. I mean, down wind I was the strongest actor in town. [Audience laughter]. Uh... but you know that's what we did and and that got us into it. We didn't get very good food. If you will...we didn't have much time. Uh... we were put like on 42, which is a short meal penalty. I mean, things say out of the meal penalty. Uh... and they treated us as a unit. they really wouldn't talk to Bob and not include the rest of us and it, it grows on you after a while. You get to where you you're pulling for some guy and you expect he's gonna watch your back...for you. If that tells you then...other than that we didn't do much. That answer it? Thank you, sir. [Jones] Come on you cowards. [Audience laughter]. [Horak] Now the hands are going up. [Jones] Look who's standing up? Where in trouble. [Horak] All the way back, yeah, go ahead sir? [Audience question 4] Did...I like to ask about another film that supposedly had a difficult shoot. I understand that "Casino" was very hard to work on because you shot in the casino very late at night after it's sort of got a little quiet like between 2:00 a.m. or something like that and it was just, well, really tough. [Jones] You, you've... put your finger to a problem because I didn't get started in "Casino" until, oh, I think, probably a month or two when, when they were shooting. They...when they started shooting. And what they were doing was working in one of the casinos and I think it was The Sands, I'm not sure, but they would, would try to work it like starting like two o'clock in the morning and shooting until the next, until...until they got to like 8 or 9 o'clock and then the crowd would come in, they had to stop but the, the...it was costing the casino money to let 'em shoot and so they said "nope" and they withdrew it. What they did then, which slowed everything down again, they went out and bought a building which was a racing commission of some kind and they turned that into the casino itself. Now stop and think about that. You, you see the... the match covers, the chips, the tablecloth, the napkins, everything has to be done and they did all of that to shoot it. And then we could pick up, we picked up a little speed because we could shoot which we did in many times, oh, 18 hours a day. That answer ya? Thank you. [Horak] Up here, right in front here. [Audience question 5] Do you remember what the response was when this was, when this came out? And when that happened if you... uh... what you had to, you know, when you were getting your next picture if that was something that uh you were looking at? [Jones] I, I missed the last question. The last part of it. What the response was and when you when you're going about getting your next picture because it was a little bit questionable, as Chris had said, uh... in the way of war treatment if that had any effect on your career? [Jones] You know? I got the answer but you have another one? [Horak] No. [Jones] No? Coward. Okay. [Jones] It did not do very well, it didn't...wasn't terrible. It just did not do too well. It's one of those pictures that when it first comes out doesn't seem to work and then it will start, kind of behind the scenes, to pick up steam and this one has done that but during this period of time you could... there were the only place you could sell your picture was to the networks and they came out of that because of the names they had in the piece. So that, that got their money back and made them a tad of profit. But I don't think it set any records at the box office I'm not sure because I wasn't in the counting office. So... they may have a different answer. Yes? [Horak] No, the film did not do so well at the box office. [Jones] No. [Horak] It's, it's, uh... in that sense it's a film that you know now we look at completely different. I saw recent in...about a year or two ago, the restoration of... of "The Sand Pebbles" and that's another film that, that you know when it came out in '65 it bombed because it was a parable of Vietnam. [Jones] But look at the money they had in that mother. You could do okay with "Men in War" but god that, that bankrupt the state. [Audience laughter]. So, it wasn't a bad picture, terrible. It was a good picture. [Horak] Right up here, yep. [Audience question 6] You already spoken about Branson, Bronson Canyon location but the first half the film it was different. I know the LA Times article about the Festival mentioned Malibu and the American Film Institute catalog says Malibu Canyon. Is that true? And, if so, do you know any more specific location to where that was? [Jones] You know, it's...we got so invested and involved in making the picture and we were working our tail off and we didn't have much time to, to rest and so we weren't paying much attention. In the morning we'd get in the buses and wherever they took us and stopped we jumped out and started working. So didn't really pay much much attention. I didn't. Not sure about anybody else. Uh... But...uh... now after the fact I've seen so many of them, so many different times that we were out at Malibu. You notice all the stuff with the uh... the uh... the dead leaves...uh...the dead grasses? That was all shot there and we had to be very careful because of fire. Even then... so, but other than that, sir, I'm not really sure if we knew where the heck we were nor did we care. [Audience laughter]. [Jones] Let me get home in the evening. Yeah? [Audience laughter]. [Horak] Yeah, one last question. Right here. [Audience question 7] Yeah, I'm just wondering uh... how Mann compared or are similar different from Peckinpah in terms of working style and personality... temperament? [Jones] You jest, of course. [Audience laughter]. [Jones] You're talking about Tony? Yeah, Mann.. [Jones] You talking about Peck, Peckinpah? Well...well let me see. Uh... if, f you know anything about the business at all if you do a picture with Peckinpah you're crazy. That's a fact of life. I did 12 with 'em. [Audience laughter]. So uh... They're... all good directors, Sam was a good director, don't ever...he was a better writer than he was director, but he was a good director and all of them that are good directors get their way. The Scorsese's... Tony, Peckinpah... Uh...you can go back to Ford, Wilder. Uh...they, they get what they want and you don't give it to 'em you're in a world of hurt. Crazy, Sam was just crazy but he was also talented. If, if he were alive today I'm sure he'd be committed and should have been. [Audience laughter]. Peckinpah... ah... he's gonna do "Noon Wine." Okay. took...he's, he's the only director they would let touch "Noon Wine." She wouldn't let anybody else do it. So...at that point in time, he had been shunted out of the business. He was not in the business for about four years. He, they wouldn't let 'em onto the sets. They wouldn't let 'em onto studios. They wouldn't return his calls... Sam was dead. And so they got, and he got and they, Danny got 'em "Noon Wine." Do you know the story at all? Katherine Anne Porter... [Horak] It's a television... [Jones] Yeah it is television but it that's the only way it would get there if Peckinpah would do it but... So he called me. He said "Oh good, we're gonna go back to work." Crazy. I said, "I can't do it Sam." "Why is that?" Well, I was doing "The Virginian" and we were working six days a week and I can't get off....maybe on a Saturday I could do it but you're not gonna do that you're gonna shoot it. He said, "Okay." Two days later called back and said, "Okay, we're gonna do it. We're gonna shoot you on Saturday and Sunday." "All right...that's fine." What do you mind, wardrobe...he wanted, he wanted me because of his son. I can train a kangaroo to do the part that I did in about three minutes but he wanted it. So it's what we're gonna get and so he said "Look if that..." didn't go to wardrobe and so forth. Now I was shooting that day until about eight or nine o'clock at night. We started like 6:00 in the morning. The wardrobe lady had waited this whole time. She had gotten there a little bit after 4:00, I think, in the morning to do the work. She got through with a regular date. She waited for me. I got there as quickly as I could which was about 9:30 at night. We got the work done. She did marvelous stuff, had it laid out for me and she says, you know, "I'll let you know if this is okay." Sam had said come by the office when you get through so I went by and there's only Sam and I sitting there talking and for one of the few times in his life he really was being honest with himself because he was scared to death since he had been turned out of the business and he said, "What's the matter? Why don't people like me?" Well, that's a question you want to be very careful of with Sam. [Audience laughter]. So I said, "Well.. I'll tell you Sam. You're an ass." Actually I said it a little more stoutly than that but that will clean it up for here and "Well, why is that?" I said, "Because... you're a total ass, because on the set you won't say anything to me because you know I'll come back at you and we'll have a fight but you pick on people who cannot fight back, who are working for a living and you take advantage of it and your total ass. When you're taking...when you're, when you're working. "Oh", he said, "yeah, well...really?" I said, "Yes," I said, "I'll tell you what, you watch me" and the phone rang. He picked it up and turned out it was the wardrobe lady asking some question. [Jones mimics Peckinpah cursing]. And he went on for about five minutes. He slammed the phone down and he turned back to me, he said, "Now you let me know if you notice that I do anything unusual." [Audience laughter]. That's Peckinpah. [Audience laughter]. And he and Tony was the same way... he just showed it differently but these people are grateful because they keep you on you.. keep you on edge, you're trying to get through the day alive and so you really watch what you're doing. So yes, they each one has his own way of doing it and the outcome is what they want. Whether what, whether that's good or not is something else but that's why these people are good and repeat and do it all of the time. That answer ya, sir. Thank you. [Horak] L Q. thank you for sharing with us and thank all of you for coming. [Jones] You bet. Thank you very much folks. [Clapping].