Masc | Pete Barma, Marvin Lemus, Moira Morel, Bret Parker, Max Valerio, Jenni Olson

so welcome to the Billy Wilder theater the home of the public programs for the UCLA film and television archive my name is Amanda Salazar I'm a public programmer with the archive and it is such a pleasure to be welcoming you to the fourth night although could be third night technically because we had to cancel one unfortunately um of the series uh mask transmen Butch dikes and gender non-conforming heroes in cinema yes right yeah oh we have a great crowd tonight I am here for it okay before we begin as a land grant institution the film and television archive at UCLA would like to acknowledge our presence on the traditional ancestral and unseated territory of the gabolino and tongva peoples we're humbled to do work in this community these programs and conversations yes these programs and conversations cannot come together without the generous individuals and organizations that have helped to make tonight's screening possible and I'd like to take just a brief moment to thank some of them all of the archive screenings at the Wilder are free thanks to a very to an anony a gift from an anonymous donor and we are very grateful for their support the screening Series has been made possible by the Andrew J Kean Jr Foundation I would like to thank Criterion also of the Criterion Channel who we partnered with early on so that we could kind of the first in-person program of this series so if you didn't couldn't catch anything else please go to the Criterion Channel and Screen the rest of this remarkable series it was put together by the co-curators Jenny Olsen and Kaden Mark Gardner yeah um we have been so lucky to work in partnership with so many amazing organizations and I would like to thank some of our Community Partners so first I would like to thank outfest Butch monthly La everybody Los Angeles magic hour one archives Foundation outright magazine and the UCLA lgbtq campus Resource Center I love this like clapping in between each one I really do it's warming my heart today a special thank you to our digital lab manager we'll see if he gets some Applause um Randy anch all right I love like Randy's not even here and I get to tell him this about this um he really did put in a lot of work for this program to look as good as it did so it is a very much a behind the scenes effort so those Applause very much are felt believe me and then I would like to it's never like last and least because these people are going to make the show run very smoothly tonight but we they do deserve a round of applause for to our in-house manager uh Lauren Brown and also our proje just tonight Leon Hebert and before we get into a little bit about tonight's show and I bring up a special guest I would just like to remind you to perhaps mark your calendars we have one more night night of this series which is tomorrow night a very special performance by Frank uh so I would also recommend getting here for that and also a Q&A with Frank and the filmmaker uh tomorrow after the first program and then as if that weren't special enough Jenny Olsson who helped co-curate this series um will be having their film screen the joy of life will be on Sunday as a part of uh the final night of a series called San Francisco plays itself so if you haven't seen Jenny's film um that's definitely one to come see on the big screen I'm very much looking forward to it and remember they're all free so just out there so um tonight's program will go as follows so after our these introductions we will screen mask the shorts this consists of nine short films we'll bring up a few special guests for the conversation we will then open this up to audience Q&A so please think about those questions now we're going to take a short intermission which will be 10 minutes and then we are going to screen the aggressives so now I have the pleasure of bringing up up a special guest before tonight's screening on behalf of outfest and the outfest Legacy project in 2005 UCLA film and television archive partner with outfest which was founded at UCLA in 1982 to create the outfest UCLA Legacy project for lgbtq moving image preservation please join me in welcoming the Legacy Project's new project manager Jillian Horvat hi everyone I'm so glad to be here I'm going to keep my remarks brief to so you can all hear more Jenny um I'll just tell you a little bit about the Legacy project uh outfest and the UCLA film and television archive as you heard by Amanda partnered in 2005 to create the outfest UCLA Legacy project the only program in the world exclusively dedicated to preserving lesbian gay bisexual and transgender moving images at risk of becoming lost due to deterioration and neglect over the last decade we have established the largest publicly accessible collection of lgbtqia Plus Moving images anywhere in the world more than 41,000 items and growing outfest and the UCLA film and television archive work together to select preservation projects and raise the necessary funds the archive then completes the restoration work and houses the collection in its state-of-the-art facilities we have completed 26 film preservations and Restorations and are continuing to raise funds to restore damaged material ensuring future Generations have access to our lgbtqia plus film Heritage the preservation and collection of lgbtqia Plus Moving images have historically Pro posed unique challenges prior to the establishment of the Legacy project there was no system in place to save and restore independent and orphaned lgbtqia plus films that lack Studio support or other financial means to care for and provide access to to them through our preservation activities the outfest UCLA Legacy project Works to preserve and provide access to lgbtqia plus films at risk of being lost due to deterioration and neglect and now I'd like to introduce you to a person who is an essential part of the Legacy project the word rockar doesn't even begin to cover it she's the rockar of the lgbtqia plus archive scene Jenny Olsen is a queer film historian writer and filmmaker who has been a leading figure in the lgbtq film world for many years in addition to being a founding member of The Advisory board for the outfest UCLA Legacy project for lgbtq lgbtq film preservation I had it every other time she is the proud proprietor of but.org please help me welcome to the stage Jenny [Applause] Olsen [Applause] thank you Jillian um okay I like being called a rock star thank you um wow I'm so glad to see you all what a great turnout um thank you for being here thank you to UCLA and everyone um uh let's see so we're going to have a conversation afterwards I'm really excited for that um but I'm just going to tell you a little bit about the shorts to uh enhance your appreciation of them um so I love that this program reflects the kind of themes of the larger series um itself um that we have this kind of mixture of films buying about Butch dkes transg guys gender non-conforming a Fab assigned female at Birth folks um and uh documentaries narratives um experimental and even a home movie um so you're going to see a bunch of films from the early 90s here especially from San Francisco um thank you nice feel like we're like the Beats um uh Stafford story eay and trans are films that I programmed when I was co-director of the San Francisco LGBT film festival in the early 90s um we're going to see my short sometimes which is also from the early 90s uh and I love that these all offer a snapshot of how we were playing with G playing whatever let's see what did I write here exploring gender and sexuality uh at that time um and I also love that they're all creative and fun and sexy um and so Julian talked a bunch about the Legacy project um one of the other things that the Legacy project does is help filmmakers with scans with titles that are in the collection and so several of these films actually the scan were courtesy of the Legacy project um and so you're also going to see an amazing short documentary um Max uh from Monica troit this is from 1992 and it's one of the first portraits of a trans man on screen um and I don't know when the last time this played on screen um and we're really fortunate to have have Max here all the way from Denver um folks who uh were here the other night for maggots and Men U Max was also featured in maggots and men and more recently was in um framing Agnes Chase joints framing Agnes um we're also going to see uh several more recent films including Jude dr's wonderful mure bch uh which premiered at South by last year um and then we're going to have with us the director and um writer cinematographer of vomos which co-stars Vico Ortiz and Jessica kamacho um and which is such a beautiful film I'm very excited for you to see it um so uh so Moira Morel the writer and cinematographer yes will be here with us afterwards for the Q&A along with director Marvin lus um and from the amazing little Pixar esque short Pete we have um the writer director Brett Parker and writer star Pete barma here [Music] all the way from the Bay Area home of Pixar um where Brett works and I'm really excited for you to see this film and it's so it really does look like a Pixar short um and then the last thing we're going to see the first ever public screening of a three minute compilation of excerpts that I pulled together from an amazing early 1960s home movie that I have in my collection which is now this sounds so pretentious every time I say it but at the Harvard film archive um so I have to preface it with so that I don't sound as pretentious as that sounds um um and this the home movie I excited for all of the actual films but um but it's it's part I'm particularly excited for us all to see it together and um this person and it's just this random home movie that came into my hands part of being in the archive part of being a rock star in the LGBT archive world is that like people will contact me and tell me about things or in the case of this footage just give things to me because I because I'm the the rock star that I am and uh and this footage um is really incredible and I think it particularly um speaks to this idea that we talk about how we have always been here so thanks for being here enjoy the show and I'm excited to talk to everyone [Applause] [Music] afterwards wow that was so great um okay I know everybody's like blah blah blah it's hard to stop talking because the shorts were so great but it's time for my intro for the aggressives yes thank you thank you um that was so great um I'm so excited that we're showing this film so uh the aggressives has really been like a kind of cult film since it was first released in 2005 um it's such an amazing film um so the the director Daniel ped um basically followed the six subjects over the course of about five years in New York City um and it's this amazing kind of thing to hear them talk about their experiences and identities and follow their Journeys over time um so as uh aab assigned female at Birth masculine presenting folks of col color they use a lot of different language to describe themselves um so Butch AG aggressiv transgender lesbian um and I just watched rewatched the film again the other night and it's it's super interesting that stuff about language and you'll see as you're watching um that you know there's just a lot of Shifting back and forth and I mean it's so it is so interesting to kind of you know think about how the the words that we have to describe ourselves and how they've changed over time but even how they changed just in the course of the making of This film within a couple of years um and you'll you'll see what I mean um so so yeah I was just rewatching the film again the other night and I I was just struck by um one of the main things about it is just the kind of honesty and cander um and it's just such a gift um you know we were talking earlier about the importance of seeing ourselves on screen and um it is just as a film it is just such a gift um so there's two notable things that I wanted to mention um one of the main subjects is uh of the film is Maris Wilson um who has gone on to do all kinds of other things um he was prominently featured in the documentary disclosure trans lives on screen from a couple of years ago um he is ALS was also in the our opening film um no ordinary man um and he's also now an actor most recently in A League of Their Own um and um actually I had tried to get him to come but didn't get an answer from his agent um um so and the other thing that I wanted to let you know and I know that normally we say like put away your phones and of course put away your phones but when you're back to your phones go to Instagram and follow the aggressives on Instagram um because there is actually a followup film that is in process um that will be coming sometime soon um and they've been posting a little bit about it on the aggressives account and um it's pretty exciting um to imagine finding out what all these folks are up to 20 years later so um and it's also amazing that I don't know sometimes I'm like 20 years this seems like not that long ago and then in other ways obviously very long time ago but um yeah so you're in for a real treat enjoy the aggressives thank you so great to see all together you guys are an amazing audience um uh we're gonna welcome up our special guests um first of all the writer director stars of Pete Pete barma and Brett Parker come on down um and the uh director and the writer and cinematographer of vomos Marvin lius and Moira morel of course you're way way up at the top I hope you guys were actually had arrived when the film was screening yeah we here oh good okay we were like Latino L and the star of Max Max wolf [Applause] valario it was so yay it was so great to see how the films all worked together and like played off of each other and um um yeah so um we'll do a little little I'll ask a couple of questions to get us started and then we'll open it up to the audience um and um um so let's see so the the filmmakers of Pete and the filmmakers of vomos I want to ask you um a little bit about or could you just talk start and talk a little bit about kind of the origins of the project um and you know this is should be a good prompt for you to to to say some cool stuff like um you guys hi I'm Pete um Brett's my wife and so the origin probably uh we joke around that I've told this story many many times and uh she's an animator and at some point um pretty sure she was like let's just make this story come true I've heard it so many times um so I think the origin was just telling Tales of my childhood and uh who I am today and I think luckily I'm I'm married to someone that could make it come to life and it just seemed like it was such a but you can probably hear me anyway right no I think it's yeah Closer Closer like that okay I'm like no like that close um no it also just seemed like this was the right time to tell that story I mean um and uh it's kind of interesting cuz an animated film they take a long time to make it this took about two years um and it was actually all 100% of the work done on it was a volunteer um so we were all working after hours and you know our second job and um you know it's really hard actually to be like hey I know you're volunteering can you volunteer a little faster um so but I also at the time this was now a year ago um I felt like I was really worried I knew we had the energy and and um at that moment I was like all the politics of everything that was happening in the United States around trans um uh and our lgbtq you know plus Community um I was worried I was like oh we need to get this film out now because like a year from now who knows maybe this will have passed and everything's going to be great again and then actually that obviously was not the case but um but so it's it just actually has become a subject that's even I think more pertinent now and more part of our dialogue and to have um but that was really partly because you know this is a story that is part of our life and Pete's life it is a true story um but also it is a story that um I think is really important for people to see that and as well as like this whole program that this isn't just a current subject that is now this is something that has been part of the conversation for Generations so Vos was uh I um the idea came for me when back in like 200 one I think after reading Stone but Blues because there's a there's like a little vignette in that book that talks about um the main character that goes to a funeral of a Butch woman who dies and the family's put her in this big flowery dress and everybody's just like can't believe that this has happened and they're all super pissed off about it and go get wasted at the bar afterwards and I just remember reading that passage and um I just remember being like Oh my God my mom would totally do that to me and like I was like oh how would I get out of that situation I was like I'd have to have like an amazing girlfriend who would come in and break into the morg and so I was like I came with this cuz I'm like a little bit I have a little bit of an overactive imagination as you might realize and so that came to me then and then like like fast forward to 2014 14 or 15 yeah I was in this program project involved with Marvin and they opened up for everybody to submit a script even though I was in as a cinematographer and I was like what the [ __ ] you know I've been sitting on this story forever and so I just sat down and banged out like sort of a pitch and they greenl it for development and so I teamed up with Eric and we wrote it together and I like I knew I wanted Marvin to direct it because like like I think I spent one class with you and I was like oh this is the guy he gets it yeah I remember getting the one sheet you sent me a one sheet you're like this is I'm submitting this um and I think you'd be great for it and I remember reading it it was like two or three paragraphs and was like so choked up by the end of these three paragraphs that I was was like oh like I was like this how I'm feeling off of a one sheet like oh my [ __ ] imagine I was like like I hope we can get to make this and so cuz it was like they developed you know there was only so many slots for what would get made so they you know we luckily got through the process of actually getting to to shoot it to produce it and um that process of working with Moira on it was who I was like well you got to shoot it like you're such an incredible cinematographer and there was like well she's writing it can is it okay can we do both and I was like yeah like we'll be fine I'm very collaborative it's not going to be a thing um and it was like still to this day one of the best shoots in my life so I just really love and I haven't seen this in so long it was that was really special thank you guys for putting this together and for uh having this screening it was really really special it was really great thank you guys for making it I um it is such a just such a devastating film it's such an incredible film and um um I love that you mentioned Stone B blues and um it's interesting how it connects to other films in the series and and one of the kind of things um that we talked about on opening night with no ordinary man or or in no ordinary man you know the story of Billy Tipton and you know what what what happens when trans and gender n non-conforming folks pass away and this in what was not known and you know what the the the kind of you know VI violence in death um um anyway and so it's just so um it's so what's like cathartic but but Redemptive you know in a way that twist happy ending yeah um I always call it bittersweet ending it it's that cuz I think the thing that we really really connected on when we were first developing it was and going through the script process was I I for myself was so tired of seeing the Latino like trauma porn and when I saw this it reminded me of my sister and I just felt so connected to it I just felt it it just this I was one I was like freshly in love um in my relationship and so just like like I just like every little thing was making me cry at that time it was beautiful um just butterflies all the [ __ ] time and I was like oh this story and um and I think the thing was like oh like it's so sad it's so heartbreaking but but what an incredible way to one the humor of it being able to infuse it with humor like when I read it it made me think of my sister and and her friends and just all the the the Latinas in my life and and just how every day is hard like every like we deal with [ __ ] every day and it's just but you have to hold your head up high and you got to just like you know you can't be sad about it like there's just comedy there's laughter there's always joy in the pain um if anything there's even more of it in the pain and so I think that that was the element that was so exciting to be able to infuse that with yeah um thank you um so max same question for you although you know obviously a little different with the documentary and and I'm sort of curious about if you could talk about you know how you connected with Monica and decided like okay yes I want I'm going to trust this person to to tell my story and and and also what a [ __ ] incredible film so thank you [Applause] amazing it was it was fun to see it again yeah it was interesting after all this time so I connected with Monica troit uh through a close friend uh who knew her and um I was actually in a uh in the Virgin machine with my friend my friend Clara and we're at the very end this is pre-transition and we're extras and we're smoking which we don't do in in in real life and we're looking really mean in the in the camera we're this punk punk couple and uh so so I connected with her and I you know I went on Instinct I found out from clarish Monica was thinking of doing a movie about me and my transition I I transitioned I started uh taking testosterone in 1989 so you know I just I had a good feeling about it and I knew that it was necessary particularly at at the time because there really wasn't much out there and uh there was a film that I had seen at an FTM meeting a support meeting called uh what sex and what sex am I which uh you know for its time I mean it was definitely informative it had trans men and trans women it had some uh I think it had crossdressers as well but it had this very ominous tone it had this narrator uh voiceover narration of this person person saying things like Anna is a stripper Anna is actually a man you know and it was all very tragic you know like these tragic Twisted people in the Twilight Zone so um so I I wanted to do something different it was the time for it I wanted to do something that was very informative that had humor that uh you know wasn't you know that basically was me taking more ownership of the film in terms of how it was done in terms of you know and working with Monica who was wonderful to work with she was really supportive she brought out the best in me I never done a movie I've done movies since but I've never done a film like that and uh she was able to sense my mood like if I wasn't I I think at one time I took two benad drill for some reason and I was really out of it right I wasn't quite OT voting I wasn't there and and she took me she was Max what is wrong you know and she took me on a little you know walk around the block and we talked and um so she was great she was just amazing so uh and we've worked together since on gender knots as well as a a newer one called genderation so uh anyway it was it was a wonderful great honor and it also led to the Genesis of my book the testosterone files which is a Memoir where I go into greater length not only about my life but about the effects of the hormones and so on and can you talk a little bit about kind of the reception of the film at the time and I mean it it really was such a big deal I mean it's still such a big deal to see it and and but but but I I mean guys must have come up to you and but I mean it had to have been very impactful yeah for years after the movie the movie came to San Francisco in 1993 and uh it was at the Roxy cinema and there was a line and uh so I was like Wow and then it was at the Kabuki which is kind of just a theater you know not an art theater and um it was part of a larger film a feature film called female misbehavior which had uh a film about Camille Pia and uh Annie Sprinkle and uh there was also one about BDSM lesbian BDSM in the80s that Monica put in there so you know it was it was a a l part of a larger film but yes uh there was also a a a an article in the San Francisco weekly called from Dyke to dude right about me and you know the place I was working at the time nobody knew I mean cuz I don't you know run around telling everybody where I work and uh you know I'd walk into the break room and I'd see it opened up all right so but but yes for years after the movie came out I would have all these trans guys coming up to me and saying you know when I saw that movie that's when I decided I wanted to transition yeah so uh so it definitely made an impact and I'm I'm glad for it I think I think it was a positive a very positive movie yeah I think I mean one of the things that we talked about on opening night and you know really the whole series and you know is about just how we need to see each other we need we need to you know feel less alone and understand who we are and and yeah it's so powerful for that um and I mean related to this like can you guys also talk about the reception of the film and like when when you know you showed so vaminos was kind of on the festival circuit in 200 5 and and you know I imagine you went around with it and did you get people you know connecting with it strongly and yeah yeah I mean you were I didn't make I I didn't get to go to the frameline screening because I was working on like this Indie thing out of town but um right yeah but I I just every every time it screens I get emails every time it screens I get emails or I get people like sending me like dming me or I get people who were there being like Oh my my God like like three people came up crying and so it's like I I think it's been really impactful yeah I hugged a lot of people after the screenings after I remember that uh because we yeah we played like so many festivals it was it was my first Festival run I wasn't really used to it I came from the sketch comedy world and was used to just like small black boox theaters and being stupid um and so doing this film and being able to go on the festival circuit with it and seeing it like you know at outest frameline and like just so many festivals around like in town and and out of town there was definitely a lot of hugs and sharing and just there was just a lot of love I felt like there was just a lot of love for it and it felt really beautiful you know what I think pulse happened right either before or after we screened the first time yeah in Fram line and it it was like it just felt like really like damn it was really crazy that was another thing but yeah we it was it was really well it's and it continues to be well just really proud of it I love reading the um uh user reviews on letter boxed of it oh yeah it's on letter box vomo oh cool um yeah you have to go it's like one of the best things about I I because it's on criterian channel and so people are watching it there and like but so yeah you can like go and like read the user reviews and then the best thing is to go and comment on the user reviews what's your favorite comment on there about BOS I can't remember probably mine where I say like I was totally crying you my eyes out um can you guys talk about the reception of Pete uh yeah um we've been on we'll open it up to the audience it uh this year so the last year um starting a year ago June and um it's been interesting because that depends on the audience um some film festivals are for the most point uh maybe more straight um as an audience and um often they react very much towards the child in the film so they they relate to the child they have children they think about it in that way and then we've been in a lot of queer festivals where Mom is the more relatable figure or the hero of the story that's more recognized so we've had really interesting conversations and they're very different depending on the audience um but lots of uh families come up to us after we get lots of apologies um and uh I'm I'm going to see the world differently so we've had some uh you know people wanting to have more conversations about their own children um and what they could do and uh we've had some opportunities recently to have conversations with people we didn't expect to have conversations with and things like trauma doctors um that are seeing trans youth coming through the emergency room um so it's opened up a lot of conversations we never really thought we'd have including through schools um I'm a teacher and I'm originally from Orlando so when you said pts it made me think about it and everything happening in Orlando so a lot of states have been calling us saying we can't really show it in schools but we would like to and how could we make it accessible and so different conversations in that way so it really has been unexpected to be honest um but it seems to as a cartoon um people feel a little uh a little it's more access more accessible maybe to the the broader audience more willing to have a conversation yeah um okay let's open it up um there's a couple mics out there if you want to raise your hand um um hello um to to you too um sorry um to have to have animators volunteer I'm like I love animation I would never do it for free and it um that's a testament to you guys work work ethic your passion for the project and also um and also how many people were touched in Enough by the story to to anime for free again that's o um and um um have you seen um in a heartbeat or have you heard of it I just wanted to ask that it's another queer animated movie and like you guys said it's animations by Beth David by Beth David I think so yeah she uh she's a colleague oh okay cool so um just wanted to ask like did you guys get inspiration at all from from other like what types of Animation inspired you um other than the real life events and also in a heartbeat since you guys were colleagues did you guys talk about that too no I actually didn't know Beth when we started she just recently um it was that's fine I'll just get it later um so I really wanted I was really interested in developing sort of the ink and watercolor look I was really inspired by Winnie the Pooh um or Calvin and Hobs kind of a look you know Winnie the Pooh it it felt like it was of the era the film takes place in 1975 so something that you know we grew up with and um and so it felt like it married the look was like kind of Married With The Story So that was really kind of the the thought behind that and then it is uh 3D but sort of flattening it and doing it in that 2D look um and because it's a childhood memory it also felt like it was really fitting so that was kind of how that came about yeah thank you um um all right okay so my question is this is a little bit uh strange I think but since this event focuses on kind of the intersection between um like gender non-conformity butchness and trans identity have you guys ever like collectively have you guys ever played that game of Butch or transman and have you ever played the game of making like trying to um make sure people can identify you as one or not the other because a struggle that I've personally run into with like trying to present masculinely is that if I overdo it like if I cut my hair too short I look more like a lesbian than like a man have is that me or is that a thing anyone well I've never played that game but as someone who presents very feminine it's an it's an interesting position because I'm I feel like constantly every day uh you know first of all I don't necessarily I people might not necessarily assume I'm queer and so I feel like I have to like present as queer I have to reintroduce myself and as a more feminine person I feel like I'm constantly playing what is my line and how feminine or not do I want to be so it's a little bit different but I I feel like I understand where you're coming from yeah I I've never played the game in fact I've never heard of the game but I can appreciate it um I mean for me as I live my life I just lived My Life as a man in the world so you know and I've lived with people who don't know I've had roommates who don't know and people generally don't know it where I work um unless they look me up they Google me and then yeah but um you know then they know then they know but uh so basically for me it's more a question of when do I uh disclose and do I disclose and for what reason of course if I'm going to date someone I want them to know um and I've never really believe it or not I've I've never really ventured much into internet dating yet so I know then it's going to be a question of do I tell them you know when I you know filling out the form and putting that online or do I wait because the truth is most of the women I've dated or many of them I think they would never have looked in the trans man section right they would never have met me because most of them just met me and thought me as a guy and then they found out and they were like oh my god you're kidding but uh you know they they we went on to date anyway so um you know even though I did meet a woman actually from because of this movie who help help me to get my book deal and she was a straight woman you know so it's interesting but I don't think she would have like pinged on trans man you know so I'm not sure how this relates but I guess it's all about disclosure and about how do you look in the world and and how do people relate to you and of course ultimately you don't have control I think so you just have to sort of go with it um you can kind of try and manipulate things but things are kind of just as they are just because you can't really control how people see you yeah I I think to add to that um or I don't know yes and uh I think that if you can find a style right or mode of being that speaks to how you feel on the inside I think it kind of doesn't matter because people are going to want to put labels on you you put you in a box you know people are going to see you and they're going to make assumptions I me think we do that every day we do that 247 it's is like something we do as human beings right we evalue we look at someone we evaluate them right so I think the the important part is to know who you are you know who you are so it doesn't really [ __ ] matter if someone thinks you're this or that or whatever because if you know who you are and you're comfortable in your skin or you can get there you know then I think that's that's the only way forward really I mean that's the only way for survival in a lot of ways and you know when miss people misgender you you make the correction and you move forward and I think the more you put yourself in position to to um make space for yourself in the space that you're in and in this world the easier it's going to get and you're going to wake up one day and just realize that people are just picking up on your Vibe and you're not even have to you're not even having to do this thing that you thought you had to do or look this way that you thought you had to look because it's just you've you've you know you've reached gender nervana um I love speak um uh I On a related thing you should um stick around and watch the next film the aggressives um which is just a really wonderful kind of yeah uh in terms of people talking about identifying in different ways um and um which anyway stay and watch the aggressives but thank you for that question um we have time for one more question hi good evening oh my God first of all how dare you put on these emotional films I came on Monday and I was like okay I guess I'm just going to sob uncontrollably but yeah so first of all where are these where can I rewatch this because I'm obviously going to need to do that for a while um and then my question is you know I feel like as a trans uh like La next person you know wherever I go sometimes it's a lot of responsibility yeah like if someone was making a documentary of my transition I'm like there's so many different types of trans people gender notc conforming people and it can be so hard because everyone wants like this solid narrative or this you know you have to stick like no like I and so I guess my question to you is how do you balance the responsibility of ethically telling these stories and I think especially when a lot of because I work in Communications right and so a lot of times there's o like at one point you know people want to pitch these things or they feel like you know where the money comes from and things like that but yeah how do you what questions do you ask yourself when you pitch it throughout the process you know with the actors what stories are going to be at the center even within you know cuz it is an ingroup discussion right like I remember one time someone's like wait gay people can be sexist I was like oh my God like you know but like within our own inner group right there's so many little politics and things and so yeah I would just love to know how you kind of walk yourself through that process and ground yourself thank you um I'm going to answer or say two things and then we'll see what everyone else has to say um you can watch all of these films on the Criterion Channel um I think it's like $122 a month to subscribe there's even like a free I think you can get like a free week so if you want to like watch them all really fast um the you know um um and some of them are available in other ways um but criterian Channel um and it's interesting what you were just saying about um you know it's like the there's as many stories as people or or or you know the the sense of there's this concept about kind of the burden of representation and like you know we it needs to be the case we need to get to a place where we have you know dozens and hundreds of these films and then yeah thank you um and you know so that there isn't so much you know that's like oh this is this one film or this like couple of films that are supposed to represent an entire Community um and um anyway and so I think um I don't know that's what comes to mind when when you were starting to say that um in terms of the the the rest of your question I don't know if you guys have other other it seems like all of our films are very personal and like you know really grounded in our own experiences and stories and so I I don't think that was so much of an issue with with this group of people but as com as someone who's like also works on TV and like um I think that I think really the answer to the question is having representation behind the camera because that's that's when the stories are going to be authentic and not tokenizing people or individuals and so I think if you find yourself you know working on a script or on a production where you know like there's a certain demographic of people on the page but you don't see that demographic you know writing the pages or shooting it or directing it I think then you got to start asking questions whether you want to be there or not yeah I I mean I would just second that these are like you you just said these are all personal stories I think as a as a teacher I'm a a Storyteller by Nature with my class um and like you just just mentioned every there's a story in everybody and I think um letting the public know through our stories is that que people have a story too um they start out sometimes like kids we all start out as kids playing ball or whatever um so I think that for me is grounding it in that there's there's just a story to tell and being authentic um around that um is I think that speaks more than anything it's it's your individual story it doesn't have to fit anywhere it doesn't have to be part of anybody's narrative but your own um so yeah no one could tell everyone's story so I it's really important just to well in my case I I was trying to tell my story and that you know I knew that it had a it did represent other people to some degree or the other but I was you know it's it's still my story so um we like Alo Jenny and say that hey you know we need more movies we need more movies we need more books we need more here here so I want to um let everyone encourage everyone to we're going to take a five minute break and then come back and watch our second exciting film um the aggressives from 2005 and um definitely come back and stick around for that and thank you to all of you this was so wonderful thank you Jen