KTLA News: "Public accountability and privacy concerns regarding LAPD...’" (1980)

City Attorney Bert Pines told the committee it has every right to gather all of the information it requires to carry out its responsibility and it has subpoena power if necessary. He did say that under certain circumstances they could call an executive session if necessary. Councilman Zev Yorosvski explained what the committee was looking for. >> We wanted to know generally how much money is involved, how many officers generally in a range over a period of time are transferred perhaps from other divisions or other functions or how it works. Uh financially speaking, we're not interested in the specifics. We're not interested in exposing intelligence to the whole world. And I think uh we've made that clear. Chief Daryl Gates said if he discussed the intelligence division in public hearings, some of his undercover agents would be placed in jeopardy. Then everyone was ordered out of the meeting room. The executive session lasted for about two and a half hours and the entire situation was discussed at length. Both sides seemed pleased with the marathon session. Chief Gates said he did not discuss any sensitive material that he hadn't planned to and yet the committee was able to get the information they needed for their budget work. Stan Chambers reporting from room 238 city hall for News at 10. session and is that the desire of the committee members? >> So then there will be a unanimous vote for us to proceed into executive session. recommends a refund of 8,347 that have gone on over the past week or two weeks. I can tell you that the people enrolled in the undercover operation. >> All right. Uh unanimous vote >> and we're recommending such appropriation from the gas tax fund. >> Okay, we're rolling. So both sides seem pleased with the marath So both sides seem pleased with the marathon session. Chief Gates said he did not discuss any sensitive material that he hadn't planned to. >> This doesn't make sense for the uh city council or city committee. >> The amount of dollars which are spent in this particular arena beyond that which we already know about. I echo the remarks that have been made that we are not interested and I am not interested in the specifics of any one officer or any one organization or individual who may be a target of the police department for one purpose or another. I'm not interested in that information. We're not interested in jeopardizing the lives or the safety or the effectiveness of the officers involved in this endeavor. I recognize that intelligence gathering is a legitimate function of the police department and of any law enforcement agency. However, I also think and feel very strongly that this committee and this city council being a uh the governing body of the city has a right and a responsibility uh to have sufficient information to satisfy itself as to the level of activity in any particular department and in any particular portion of a department and that includes this particular uh activity. I don't want to steal the uh city attorney's thunder, but I want to read one sentence from the report, which he'll discuss, I'm sure, in more detail. It says on page seven of his report in the second to last paragraph, the in the situation before us, the council and its finance and revenue committee are entitled to be informed of the total costs associated with PDI activities, including but not limited to the cost of department personnel assigned and loan to the division. Uh, Mr. Chairman, this thing got slightly blown out of proportion, although not by too much because all that we were asking last week was specifically what you were asking for, a general idea, a range of the level of the PDI operation financially. It's incumbent upon us to know at a time when people are calling and complaining about a number of aspects of uh city efficiency and responsiveness in a number of departments and areas, I think it's a fair thing for us to get to the bottom of this issue. And I just want to make one personal uh remark, Mr. Chairman, and it doesn't get that much attention. Um, a lot of the alleged abuses, in fact, to my most, if not all of the alleged abuses which have been reported about PDI from the past date back at least a couple of years. And I am well aware of the efforts that have been made since Chief Gates became the chief of police and Assistant Chief Ion was put in charge of this whole area and that Captain Lumis was put into immediate command of the uh of the division of PDI and I'm well aware we've had an opportunity the chief and I and the captain and I and the assistant chief and I to discuss the the efforts that have been made in a number of areas uh in the PDI and I I think they're to be commended. And I don't want to just leave the impression that we do nothing but criticize. I said publicly before and I say it again. I think that Chief Gates is sensitive to the issue that has been raised with regard to the rights of privacy and I think he's taken steps in that direction and so has Commissioner Tulie and the rest of the police commission and the some of the things they're they're not over 500 people undercover. I would have no fear whatsoever coming here and saying I have that number of people undercover because there would be no way in the world for those who are involved in terrorist activity or crimes of disorder to make any judgments as to any assessment as to the probability of our being involved with them. they all would probably think we were involved with them in some fashion and uh it would be impossible to make assessments with that number of of people undercover. Unfortunately, I don't have that number. The fact is that I have such a number that I truly believe that if that information were made public, if I were specific in providing that information to this committee or to the council, that the operation itself could be in jeopardy. uh the potential of terrorists assessing the probability of there being under surveillance would place the welfare of this community in jeopardy. And it's quite likely that the people who we do have undercover uh would or some of the people would be placed in jeopardy. Uh I'm hopeful that I can satisfy the needs of this committee and thus the needs of the council in relation to your responsibilities to inquire into the budget and to the use of the people's money. I'm hopeful I can do that in executive session and I'm willing to try to do that in executive session. I want to make it very very clear to this committee and most importantly I want to make it clear I guess for the benefit of the people under my command and those particularly who are in very very sensitive assignments that I do not propose to tell this committee anything that I feel will jeopardize those individuals but I don't believe that there is anyone in this committee that would want me to provide any information that would place them in jeopardy and I am willing to go into executive session uh with that understanding which I believe I have. >> Can I ask going into executive sess session enough? I think even now with the discussion that has gone on thus far that the operation has been placed in jeopardy. I can tell you this that the people >> the discussion just now here in this committee just this discussive session >> Mr. finds you've heard the discussion. Do you have any advice or guidance to give us? >> Well, I I I've given advice already and that there is a basis for executive session. Um given the information that you already have available and it's your your decision, you certainly can ask some additional questions. I don't know how much the chief feels he can go into. I I realize Certainly by no stretch of the imagination uh George Buchanan does it all the time. Okay. Before certainly every member of this committee is under a lot of stress. The chief of police is under a lot of stress. The city attorney is under a lot of stress. And stress unfortunately is not as much as we might care about the stress we put in our decision-making process or deliberative process on your officers. Stress is not the issue that determines for me whether we explore an area or not. I you know feel very bad if if some of the people are are feeling the heat of this uh discussion. But I think that's part of the part of our way of life in America and that's part of our democratic process and that's the price we pay. And I think that your people, your men and women are are good enough to take it. Uh because it's not aimed at them. It's really aimed at what we've been zeroing in on budgetary decisions, blocks of money, cost effectiveness, relative prioritization of the various things both within this particular department and compaution and I think we're we came out of it with a with some agreements. The reason I don't certainly as a followup, the reason I asked that was, do you think in retrospect now this might have been avoided had you cooperated in the first place? >> Well, I don't know. I think it required that uh a good deal of discussion go on um and uh it did both privately with individual council people. uh as you reported uh Councilman Yarlowski and I spent a good deal of time in the closet yesterday and I think all of that's important and and gives everyone a better understanding of what it is that we're cons we're so concerned about. >> Did you discuss any sensitive material that you didn't want to get into? >> No, I did not. Chief, you said in your presentation council today that you were concerned if the number or the scope specific number of officers doing this kind of work were known today that terrorist groups who pose a threat to the public order and safety in the city would began as you said as we do to establish priorities and to look for police operatives among their ranks. >> Don't they do that anyway? >> Oh yes. >> If they're very sophisticated people, don't they do it anyway? >> Absolutely. What is the operative difference between the fact that they do it anyway because they are sophisticated and knowing how many or the budget size? >> Well, I'm I'm different uh than the Los Angeles Times. I don't want to help them. >> If it ends here, do you still maintain that there's been some damage done in the past week by the request for this information? >> Well, I I you know, I' I've said I'm I'm very concerned about the constant focus on this u this particular subject. It is a it is a difficult area for the police department to operate in. It's a difficult area for uh and and often dangerous for our undercover people and the greater attention is given the greater focus that's paid on it can can have repercussions past week's discussion though. I mean has there been an increased threat or danger presented to these officers based on what's >> I hope not. I hope not. Uh I hope not. >> Has any undercover officer working for PD? Have you ever commission on uh police >> chief? It's been a several hours now. Quite a long activity. How would you characterize what would you say about that executive session? >> I thought it was a very productive session. U there was some give and take which was I think necessary. uh committee chairman uh said that they were generally satisfied with the information they received and they could properly assess the impact on the budget and that they uh could perform their responsibilities which is to as a as a finance committee to examine the budget. They said they were satisfied generally and I think that suggests that we had a good outcome. >> You think the case is pretty well closed now? Uh, I hope it's closed as far as city council is concerned. Yes. Chief, >> do you do you think it's appropriate? And so after an executive session of about two and a half hours, the And so after an executive session