In the Life | Jacqueline Gares, John Scagliotti

[Shannon Kelley] And I wanted to thank you too for - you know  over the years I wasn't aware of how many of my friends, you know, people I know from festival life and so forth were getting work from "In the Life". It's so heartwarming to see so many familiar names you know, roll by. [John Scagliotti] Yeah, really. [Jacqueline Gares] Yes, it's true, we always worked with people in the community. I mean Johnny Simons is on there. Everybody who was like, doing film or video, we always would give them a call 'cause we wanted all these different perspectives and diversity. [Scagliotti] Mmm-hmm. [Gares] To constantly be the hallmark of the show. I came on to "In the Life" in 2007 and it  was a very different show. It was more, when you saw the rap piece, that was the year that I came on. And it was more - it had gone from a variety show - when we saw the pilot that was its inception as a wonderful new variety show, to a news magazine. And it was called like a gay "60 Minutes" and there were a lot of hosts and correspondents that you saw. And I wanted to take it more into - I wanted to get rid of the hosts and take it more into a gay "Frontline" kind of direction and be investigative and kind of attack the right and call them out on their shit, [laughs] basically. [Scagliotti] And I wanted to go back to the variety show. I just love variety. [Gares] [laughs] It was so much fun in the variety show, I know. [Kelley] Well it was so great. I love that the first moments are kind of like going to church a little bit. There's the choir and everybody's like Hosanna-ing. [Gares] Yes. It's a different kind of church. [Scagliotti] I love the audience and people clapping. And ah! That was - our audience coordinator for our first three shows Dan Kagan - right there. Stand up Dan. That was terrific. [applause] [Kelley] Bravo. [Scagliotti] I mean that was the big job. And you know the biggest job for "In the Life" at the beginning was the, the  - well as, as Kate would say the, the "purple room". Can you imagine a show, the first show, we had 170 gay men chorus, we had the Lavender Light, we had - I mean the - to feed them all? I mean that's all we worked on was the purple, or the, well we called it the "purple room". That's what was our job. We forgot I walked into the, you know, the control room where we had three cameras. And I said, "Okay, let's go!" And then they look and then I forgot. We forgot a director. We didn't even bring a director inside the camp, we were so busy making sandwiches. And they look at me and I say, "Okay. I'll direct." And so off we went. And we just - I said "Pick one, two - oh that's a good shot." Oh you know, I didn't know what I was doing. And that was our first show. I can't believe we forgot the director but that's how we began. [Kelley] Well that was already a great distance to have come. I mean, I was trying to think 1992, you're probably conceiving things or it's really heating up 1991 or something like that. [Scagliotti] Yeah it was 1991, yeah. [Kelley] So there'd been very important action, Queer Nation, ACT UP, you know, people knew about these things and so forth but that doesn't seem like the kind of wave that gets a gay and lesbian television show on Public Television nationwide. Howcha do it?! [Scagliotti] Yes. It was - well thank goodness for Bob Dole and those people too. They helped. [Gares] Right. [laughs] [Scagliotti] You know the whole thing about being attacked at the beginning before we even began was sort of important for us in some ways because it gave us a lot of, you know, we had a - we did the sort of - one of the things about "In the Life" at the beginning it was very exciting was that it was a people grassroots show. We had something like 20,000 to 25,000 supporters and financial support, you know, people who became members like Public Television. It was very important because we started with six stations and because of that, that grassroots thing, there were all these people saying, "Well, you know, I paid for the show, I want it on my local television." And that was and we went very quick. You know, Katherine Linton, one of her jobs most the time was calling up program directors and getting them to put it on, putting it on. And she would just say, you know, "It's offered. You can take it." And then a week later they'd get like 300 postcards from people saying, "Where is my show?" And it really, it was in a rather interesting way. I mean, it really was grassroots support from hundreds of people all over the country who really made that show happen. [Kelley] It demonstrates a real faith on your part  that the community's there and can be mobilized. [Scagliotti] Well you just had to be around in 1991 and see what was going on in 1990, after the AIDS crisis and ACT UP and all that. People were just really, they were, you know, people weren't gonna say no. They really wanted, wanted everything. [chuckles] [Gares] Yeah, that kind of support really helped us with programmers because even when I came on we still weren't carried like in places like Tennessee, some towns in Ohio. You know there were regions that just flat-out didn't program "In the Life" for during the whole month. I mean it was really the choice of the programmer when they wanted to slot our show so no one never - no one ever really knew when to watch the show. It was a whole different, you know, you had to be channel surfing maybe to get it, or look in your local newspaper, check their, you know, listings. Anyway that kind of support really helped galvanize the show to stay on stations in Public Television. I would hear it all the time from programmers even in 2007. Said that those letters of support helped keep our show on air even against the letters of support that - or letters dismissing the show or, you know, calling to ban it. So thank you, if you wrote a letter. [Scagliotti] It was really a real grassroots effort all across the country. Yeah. [Gares] And "In the Life" even had a membership as well. People would send five dollars. It was great. Grassroots. [Kelley] And very stylish. And just,  you know, and a lot of great talents that you were able to bring together in this, in this cause. I, you know what, I once had the good luck of eating at Florent and so the thought of all this taking place [laughs] over all that is just too, is too much. [Scagliotti] Yeah, well, you know, we did have a lot of freedom. Believe it or not. You know that "Stonewall 25" show that we saw, that you saw? That show, just to give you an idea how much freedom we had - can you imagine doing a show for Public Television that's going to go over at least a hundred stations around the country, and we didn't have enough time to finish it. So, we literally took the finished film on on that day, Stonewall 25, and ran down to the satellite in channel 13 and pushed it into the thing that - well the engineer, the union guy, pushed it in - push the button and that was... No one had - I hadn't even seen it. None of us had seen it. We just put it on. And that's how close we were. I mean, ugh, I never want to live that again but, but, so we had a lot of flexible - people were kind of afraid of us because of this membership thing. This - you know, Public Television said, "Okay," you know, in a lot of cases. We had a lot of flexibility. No other show. You have to have it done three months ahead of time to get a show on Public Television. Unless it's a live show that's, you know, something like the news or something up but we, we had a lot of freedom to do a lot of stuff that I think, you might get in trouble with now. I was seeing some  stuff - the earlier stuff was pretty powerful stuff. I don't think you could do it now. It's some of the things that we were doing then. It was, there it's, it's, it's a change in media, you know. [Kelley] But the program itself, you know, sliced through queer - I mean it was such an interesting time there in the, in the early 90s because you're still for heaven's sake, you know, the first several episodes still in the Bush years and, and, [Scagliotti] Yeah, that's amazing. [Kelley] and there was all that important, you know, ongoing work around HIV/AIDS policy and everything. But even so that you were later, you were in the Bush years again after a certain amount of time and there was a lot of important work left to be done. [Scagliotti] It covered a lot of times, yeah. [Gares] Yeah, we always felt like we were on the frontlines of something, you know, some political battle. And that's why I made that "20 Years of the Culture War" and I came to interview you. [Scagliotti] Yes. [Gares] It was wonderful to get your perspective but also to get the perspective of living through the AIDS crisis, and that level and that devastation. I mean there's a shot in there, I don't know if you saw it but people, you know, were throwing ashes on the White House lawn. I mean, and "In the Life" was there covering it. [Scagliotti] Right. [Gares] I mean that's, that's powerful. That's, it, it, the archive is, it's a critical legacy.  And I'm so happy that it's here at UCLA getting, getting the - what it deserves, the look that it deserves. I'm just thrilled, really. [Scagliotti] Yeah. [Kelley] In fact I - if we asked how, you know, how, how many such images only exist in this setting, I wonder if it would be, you know, a very, very high proportion of, you know, particularly those things on - well actions like that that you just mentioned, the White House. And then all the international work that was done. Because and you went to Latin America and South Asia. [Scagliotti] Right. We did a, we did a show in Cuba in like one of our first years. You know, "Gays in Cuba". So there was a tremendous amount of international. While the focus got much greater internationally later, but even from the beginning there was the sense that we were going to be international. [Kelley] And I, you know, I love that feeling of the first episode that those, those drapes are those like the kind of drapes I saw in a kindergarten play last week or, you know, there's like things, like every kind of way to make the show come off we're probably on a budget and so forth. And then when I think of you having correspondents internationally and so forth, is this all on the basis of having a subscriber basis? [Scagliotti] Well, no. I mean there were foundations that had to give money too. I mean we did have a lot of members at the beginning. And, and, and don't forget "In the Life" wasn't even a non-profit. It wasn't anything for the first five years. It was just, you know, fiscal sponsorship. And so whatever way we could get money and whatever way we could stretch a dollar. I mean, the correspondents used to go in to Macy's or whatever buy us, you know, an outfit and hide the, the tags, you know. They'd look nice and spiff on TV and then they'd bring it back the next day saying, "it, it didn't fit." You know. [Kelley] If you only knew. [Scagliotti] Hopefully the sales clerks weren't watching the show. [laughs] "That looks like the one I sold last week." So we did all kinds of things to save money. There were a lot of volunteers. A lot of people who worked. Staff was paid very little money. And so it really, you know, really, really stretched the dollar as they say. And I'll never forget the first time - you know and there were so many people in the closet in those days, so it was hard to get people who were, you know, well suited to produce television. A good friend of mine used to produce the NBC evening news, was a producer on the NBC evening news. And after about five years of "In the Life" he finally came over and he said, "John, you know, I think I'd like to do a show. The show's looking really good. I think I'd like to do a show."   And I said, "Joe, we'd love to have you. Come on over to - pitch me your idea." So he came over and he pitched this idea and I said, "Oh that's fantastic," you know. "Produce that. Go ahead." And then he said, "Well what's my budget?" And I told him what the budget was, and he said, "John! Our messenger budget at NBC is bigger than that in one day. I couldn't do that. I couldn't produce that." And that's when I discovered, I realized then we not only learnt how to produce our own shows, but we learnt it in a way that was very inexpensive, that really was a talent of the people who were involved to be able to do them in - really these producers from NBC couldn't do it. They just wouldn't know how to do it. It was a, it was an experience for me to realize that not only were we creating television but we were creating it in a way that was different in terms of cost. And really, [Gares] It was radical. It was radical. [Scargliotti] so it was radical in that way too, of how to produce, on how to produce a nine minute piece on a thousand dollars. [Gares] Yes. And but you did get these wonderful producers that wanted to do something that was meaningful. I mean, that's how I came to "In the Life" myself. I was doing - prior to "In the Life", I was doing freelance production and I wanted to - I wanted work that was meaningful. And you know so we would constantly call people, you know, who were either big names in the LGBT community or people that were just, you know, well, you know, good producers. And tell them this is - you know, pitch us your stories or, you know, we want to greenlight this, could you do it? And they were just happy and honored to be a part of the "In the Life" canon. [Scagliotti] Right. Well, that's what happened later on as time went about more and more. I mean, coming out was a big thing. And a lot of people started being able to work in the regular media and come out and, and, but they did find while they could come out, they still had many limitations they, that they wouldn't have had by coming over and working with Jac. So that was a really important, important part for them to do. [Gares] And also with that work it was a great responsibility. I mean 'cause here you were, you know, you had a half hour or an hour on Public Television, and with that, you know, great responsibility also came, you know, like just this feeling of, you know, freedom, [Scagliotti] Right. [Gares] as you say, but also a privilege. It was, it was an incredible - I can tell you, I was there for five years of my life and it was an incredible privilege to be a part of. And, you know, I thank, I thank the heavens that I, you know, got to live it. [Scagliotti] Yeah, [...] experience. [Gares] I was sad that I had to do the final episode though. [Gares laughs] [Scagliotti] Yeah, that's pretty painful. [Gares] But we got Kate. [laughs] So, we kept it in the family. [Scagliotti] Did you want to open this up? [Kelley] Yeah! I wanted - I got plenty more questions, but why don't we share the time a little bit. There - some microphones in the house. And if you have a question and will show us a hand, we'll rush a microphone to you. And... oh, I see one right here. In the middle. [Scagliotti] Oh, look at this. [Person in audience] So thank you both for, for being part of this program and for all your work. I had a question about representations of transgender communities. I feel like, you know, it was touched upon briefly  in, you know, the, this piece but, but I wanted to hear what your thoughts were in terms of, you know, the many years that the program took place and how the program addressed that particular community.  So if you would mind. [Scagliotti] When we started, LGB...T the T was not very - I mean, one of the things about "In the Life" and one of the things about the LGBT movement is in itself, has grown. You know? And so, while this piece that - probably one of the smaller elements that's a little bit missing, I think "In the Life" really began to take seriously the T in LGBT in its later days. And there were many, many, I mean, I remember seeing some great stories that were done about transgender people.  And so I don't think this piece really reflected some of that maybe. [Gares] There's an early one. There's a really great early one of a transgender fire, firewoman. She's a trans woman who's a, who's a, in a local - I mean that was the great thing about "In the Life" is that it would go into a rural place in America and do a story on a trans person who, you know, works in a fire department. So there are some beautiful gems like that. And it would be kind of a profile piece, you know, kind of like, you know, that - another part of that privilege was being able to, like, not only come in to share someone's life and their experience but also like sit in their living room and film them, you know, making a cup of tea. You know? But it's true, John's right. It did get more critical for us to show stories and we did when the Injustice at Every Turn Study came out. We did a piece immediately that addressed that study.  But along the way I would say there were some nice profile pieces. And maybe some political gender - certainly things on gender and larger topics. But you would get a story here and there. [Kelley] As I recall, I mean one of the things, you know, loved to have done a three-hour show too, but, but, but a wonderful  piece about, about very young children [Scagliotti] Yeah. [Kelley] who were [Gares] Oh yeah, "Becoming Me". [Kelley] differently gender identifying, you know, all across the board. [Gares] Oh God, that was my... God, yes, that, there's an incredible half hour, the entire show. I dedicated the whole show to it. I mean, it started out as a segment that was going to be like maybe 10 minutes and I was like, "this needs to be the entire show." And it's called "Becoming Me" and it's about gender non-conforming youth. And it, it was one of the highest YouTube views that we had ever gotten. It was used by PFLAG. It was just - people were just clamoring for more content. [Scagliotti] It was a very important show. [Gares] So that's something that I worked on , but that was later. [Scagliotti] I mean, of all shows, probably "In the Life" is one of the few shows that really did reflect itself in terms of being able to listen and be out there, because the people involved were so out there that they would run into these kinds of issues constantly.  So it, the ability to get feedback into the program was very, it was very easy. In other words, we actually, you know, through membership, through whatever, we really felt the desire to reflect the audience that we were creating a film about. And so therefore, I think as time went through on "In the Life" transgendered people as they became more and more presenting their voice, there was a place in which it could be heard, and "In the Life" certainly was that. [Gares] Well let me just say one more thing on that. I had the privilege of producing and directing a conversation with Janet Mock and Isis King that we had done and this was of course in the later years. And we, you know, we wanted to tackle the fact that people only talked about Trans 101. So we wanted the conversation to be ele- elevated at the beginning and, you know, so there was always that expectation of "In the Life", not only meeting with the community but challenging the community to go farther. And just so happened in that conversation, we mentioned Laverne Cox and showed a picture of her, and it ended up being that I was like, "Let's call Laverne Cox in and have her, you know, pitch a story to us." And what Laverne ended up pitching is now a film that I'm directing, the "Free CeCe!" documentary with Laverne. We decided to make that after "In the Life" ended. So "In the Life" was, it was one of those magical points of light kind of places that even if we saw something that was underrepresented or needed to be addressed more, we were always open and examining ourselves and doing it. You know, it was just, that's how we worked. [Kelley] Another question in the audience? Very top. [Person #2 in Audience] I, I'd be interested to hear a little bit about the feedback you got from the right. We saw a little bit of that on video. And then also the feedback you got from kids in the Midwest who this was the only way that they learned about what a world that they were, that was close to them otherwise. [Scagliotti] Well, I'll start with the kids in the Midwest a little bit.  Because and then you can, 'cause you can talk a little bit about the right. We immediately started getting letters from people when we first started doing "In the Life" and it really affected our approach to the whole nation. And so, for example, I always love to tell the story, you know, because once we started producing programs and opening it up for producers to come in and pitch programs, we used to get a lot of great pitches from people. And I'll never forget I had just received a letter like two days before where this 16-year-old kid was going on about this is the first time that he was able to sit with his family and in the living room of his house and watch people like himself on TV with his mother and father and he was just wanted to thank us and it was overwhelming for him. He was 16. And I'll never forget that same day a little bit later somebody came in to pitch, you know there was all this access television that was taking place in those days, especially in New York City, and we didn't want people to think that we were a New York-centric show so we purposely really went out to places all over America, even though we couldn't afford it. But we tried to do it, you know, go to Montana for the first Gay Pride march. You know, just get a sense of being out in the country. We thought that was very very important, and not identify where we were from, so we purposely didn't say, "Oh 'In the Life' from New York." We slowly but surely tried to make it a national program. And I'll never forget, this woman came in. She wanted to produce a show and she said, "Oh, you know, there's this thing going on in the Lower East Side where women are - so cool - women are," - what is it, clit rings? Do you know what - I don't even know what they are. But it was like clit rings. And she really wanted to do a piece on this and I thought, to be honest with you, I thought the whole thing about piercing and all that was an important thing to do some work on. And I wasn't sure how to approach it, but I did think it was important. But I just then read her this letter from this 16-year-old kid and she said, "You know, you're right." And, you know, and then she left. And before I got a chance to kind of really think about piercing or what it could be and how we could make a film about piercing or make a piece about piercing. So, the Midwest was very important for us and the ability to be able to be in homes in South Dakota and places in Wisconsin and, and that was very important and we took it very seriously. And, and so, you know, we knew that that was an important mission for us, was to make a program that felt comfortable for people to watch but not to talk down to people. We tried not - as you can see maybe a little too much with hege-, hegemonic... [Gares] Hegemonic. [laughs] Well, uh... [Scagliotti] We try not to talk down, but you know, it was difficult. You can talk about the right wing. [Gares] Well, first I want to say the, the other thing there's a producer Dan Karslake, who's a wonderful filmmaker, that we interviewed after one of his films "For the Bible Tells Me So" had like stellar reviews and great success. And Dan talked about how when he was a producer at "In the Life", he got a letter from a kid in the Midwest who had just come across channel surfing, found just by chance found "In the Life" and had written a letter that he had bought a gun and was planning on shooting himself until he saw this show and he realized he wasn't alone. And he, you know, threw the gun in the river and no one ever had to know. But he had to tell "In the Life" that we had changed the course of his life. So I mean, that's the kind of stuff that people would say to you if you walked up and with a camera and in Iowa, you know, to go interview them about their gay marriage. I mean I got to feel that and experience that and like I said, it will stay with me all my life. But on the front of the, you know, the religious right, there were times that Katherine Linton would go or certain producers would go undercover at these like kind of Peacekeepers, you know, demonstrations, you know, and kind of, you know, we were always trying to like, you know, get in and get some footage, you know, and then get out, [laughs] and not, you know, start anything with anybody 'cause it was very, it was hard to not, you know, engage and be angry in those kinds of situations. So that was one way that we interacted with the religious right. The other way was just to flat-out show what they were saying about us and expose them. And the other thing that I did, was invite them to come on our program and talk to us. [laughs] So we had Brian Brown from NOM talking to us about the New York passing same-sex marriage. And, you know, we had, we invited Maggie Gallagher and she was like, "I'm not gonna speak to you because you'll edit my footage." [laughs] And we were like, "Yes. We will edit you." So, you know, it was, that was what we tried to do. We tried to engage with them ultimately and, you know, maybe they would come and talk to us, and most likely they did- they wouldn't. They would just say no to us. [Kelley] What's - actually along those lines, what may be the most astounding person you think you ever captured? [Gares] Sirdeaner Walker for me. I did a piece called "Bully Sides" and I mean it was an intense look at kids who were not even, you know, maybe they didn't identify - I mean these are children but kids who were perceived as being gay by their peers within a school system that didn't really do anything to protect them. And Sirdeaner Walker was a mother of Carl Joseph Walker-Hoover who was an  11-year-old boy who hung himself. So her interview was certainly one of the more intense and, you know, moments of my life for sure. And then there was Liza Minnelli too. [laughs] [Scagliotti] Yeah, Liza was great. [Gares] With Charles Busch. There's a great conversation that we did that - I mean the two of them together. I think Liza was proposing to Charles at the end of that. She [laughing] was trying to get him to marry her. [Scagliotti] You know, it's all a blur to me. The, the, you know,  the - I have been blessed to have interviewed more than maybe 2,000 LGBT people in the world. And, you know, from my documentaries, "In the Life", whatever I was doing I, you know, I just was meeting so many wonderful people. I did a wonderful film called "Dangerous Living" of - and did a lot of people around the world. And I - it's sort of - I shouldn't use the word "blur". It all kind of comes into this being in itself of so many wonderful amazing people who've been through hell and back and are still, you know, resilient and willing to fight and it's been an amazing journey and that to me, you know, it's the totality of the, of the diversity of all those people seems to come out as something.  I don't know what it is, but there's no real individual. It's just so many amazing people. Who - I mean I, I've always said and it would, you know, since what was going on in the LGBT community or we used to call it the gay and lesbian community when I was younger is so exciting and so interesting and full of just amazing people. Whether, you know, people like Larry Kramer to, you know, the, the kid who is, you know, in a Queer Center in Minneapolis or wherever, it's just amazing people all sort of added up and that to me has been a real blessing in my life, to have met and seen so many of these  people and be able to record them. And it's so exciting that there's some place to save it. [laughs] [Gares] Yeah, it really is. [Scagliotti] All that material. I'm so pleased that that's gonna happen. [applause] [Kelley] Well we're grateful too. I wanted to check and see if  there's any, if there's one more question. Oh, I'm so glad. Okay. [Person #3 in Audience] I just wanted to ask about the decision to end the show, and how that came about. [Scagliotti] Talking to the wrong guy up here for that but you go right ahead. [Gares] [laughing] Oh, you're going to give that to me? Volley that to me. [Scagliotti] I'll let you [...]. [Gares] Well it it really was the decision of the board which was the nonprofit producing organization had a, had a board. And the board had decided that they, we had achieved our mission, you know that there was - the original intent was, you know, for visibility. I mean we started with a variety show that, you know, the joke is, you know, not another gay television show. [laughs] You know? And, and, you know, 20 years later we are being able to hear about, read about gay marriage and same-sex marriage in the mainstream media. You know? So, the board had decided that, mission achieved. You know, you did such a great job that now you're out of a job. [laughs] You know. And, and that was, you know, that was wonderful to hear. You know, they really congratulated us. But, you know, there were many people, of course myself included, that felt that there was a lot of work, a lot of specifically trans, in the trans community, a lot of representation that we could have kept on going. HIV stories, you know. So we were very, you know, we felt like there was still a lot to do, but we always felt that way 'cause we took our work incredibly seriously. I think I said it was - there was a lot of responsibility. We really felt like we were changing the world every month, with every broadcast. You know, "Hey look at this. Change your mind." [Scagliotti] Well I want to keep on a positive note so I, I won't comment too much about the ending of "In the Life", but except to say that it was an incredible network and that network existed until the last day that "In the Life" was shown. So it's, it's an amazing thing to have lost, one of the few networks in the country. And so there, there is a big loss there. There's a lot more to be done. A lot, a lot of great programs that could be done. And so I felt, so I felt a little sad by, by the loss of this. I mean, can you imagine if I told you, "Oh, we have 200 stations you can be on tomorrow or with a program." You jump at that. And that's what was lost, was the ability to reach all over America with a TV show and, and, and broadcast. And so there are a lot of people were seeing it even though maybe not so much in LA or, or New York but it still was a very important program in Virginia, and in places all over the country that, you know,  many of us have never heard of. So I was saddened to see it go and I still think it could have continued, but things happen. [Chris Horak] And John it is not gone. [Scagliotti] What's that? [Horak] It's not gone. [Scagliotti] And it's not gone.  It still lives on. [Horak] As director of the Archive, you know, I feel so privileged that, you know, we will now take care of this legacy and, and it's not - it will not disappear into the Archive. Sooner or later, all of it and I mean really all of it will be online for anyone to look at. And I think that when just watching the show tonight - and Shannon, congratulations on a great cut - [Scagliotti] Really, yeah. [Horak] - the intense humanity of it is, is just so gripping that I think going online hopefully, you know, more and more people will see that. It will have a very long afterlife. [Gares] Yeah, I felt a real stewardship from the legacy, you know, that was created by this man, this wonderful man here, you know, to keep that up, you know, to keep that going and now I feel that UCLA has taken up the stewardship definitely. So I mean, it's true it was, it was really difficult for us to get carriage, what's called "carriage", you know, to get to be seen on Public Television at a regular time on a regular day, you know? That was always the battle and it was something that we achieved our mission without having a regular day and time that you could tune in to watch the show. So that in itself is kind of amazing given the fact the way we watch TV on demand now. And maybe so many people - like I can't even tell you - everybody would say, "I just happened to find the show one night," you know, "and now I'm looking for it." You know. So I mean, it was, it, it really was a - it was an anomaly. You know, it really was something special. And I'm glad it's in your hands now, for sure. [Scagliotti] It's gonna be very exciting. And I'm looking forward to working with you all and making sure that that there is this life, for "In the Life". It really is an amazing, amazing amount of material. And I, I really like your, your statement about humanity. It really,  I mean, I, really that came across very much so to me watching this Shannon, and it was really... amazing feeling, of, of that, of just what an amazing group of people, you know, that, that, that we were able to record and save. Pretty amazing. [Kelley] Well thank you both for being with us and helping us to celebrate the legacy and give it a great bounce going forward into the future. So well, I guess we'll meet each other online. [Scagliotti] Yes! [Kelley] In further episodes of "In the Life". [Scagliotti] Thank you all very much. [Gares] Thank you for having me. [Scagliotti] And some of my "In the Life" supporters, thank you for being here. [applause]