In the Life: Interview with the cast of Xanadu [unedited footage]

["In the Life," Interviewer, off camera, partially unintelligible throughout] [Interviewer, unintelligible] [Cheyenne Jackson] Okay. [Interviewer] How do you feel about playing the role of, um, Sonny in, "Xanadu?" [Jackson] Hmm. It's been great. It's been really, [Interviewer] [?] after you say it. [Jackson] You want me to, Okay, so answer your question and then, [Jackson] Sure, you bet. [Interviewer] Take it easy. [Jackson] Okay. Um. Playing Sonny Malone in, "Xanadu," has been really surprisingly fulfilling. And I say that, because, going into it it wasn't something that, I don't know, I expected to really have to dig deep as an artist, as it were. And, with the strengths, considering the subject matter is about an artist looking for his ultimate inspiration. But, um, it has been, really a gift. You know, it came to me. I did some workshops prior. And, then, you know, things happen as they do in show biz. And I didn't, get to continue with it. And then it came back to me. I told my mom, it would always, I had a feeling, that it would come back to me. And it has been, the best seven months ever. I love it. I love coming to the theater. I love the family. I just love the story. I love the unabashed joyfulness of it. Ninety minutes. You look out in the audience and people, for ninety minutes, have just smiles plastered across their faces. And it's a great thing to be a part of. I love it. [Interviewer] Are you surprised by how much you enjoy it. Are you also surprised by the success of it. And did you think it would be successful, it would work on the part of the audience? [Jackson] I always knew it was special. I knew, I told [?], the first time I read the script. This, is very special. And I hadn't ever really felt that strongly about something, since I had done all the previous readings of, ah, "Altar Boyz." Off Broadway. The first time I heard that I knew it was going to be great. And I had the same feeling about this. It really, I knew the success depended on casting. Because there's only nine people in the show and you really had to have nine people that were, really, fully realized artists on their own, that could carry themselves. 'Cause it's not like leads and ensemble, you know. Um, and also, really in the, in the direction. I'm so glad that Chris Ashley stayed with it. And he can, he can drownd, high camp. He can make you actually care about these people. So, was I surprised? I mean, I was surprised how good the reviews were, but ultimately, not so much. Because I knew it was good. It was just a matter of, you know, all the cards lining up and the stars. [Interviewer] I guess the critics haven't been [?] [Jackson] No. [Interviewer] projects, but this one, [Jackson] Yeah, critics have not been too friendly with, with, films and stage the past few years especially. So definitely, I think it was Tony Roberts that said, you know, "It all boils down to kid, we need a good review from the, 'Times.'" And really, we did. We needed a good review from the, "Times." And we got a rave from the, "Times," and everything else kind of followed suit. And, I really think it's the little show that cared. I think it's going to be like a, a, "Spring Awakening," or, "Avenue Q." How it kind of starts here and then it's just a gr, now just feel it right now. It's exciting to be a part of every day. [Interviewer] What about all of those things you have to bring to the, to the role, the performance, it's actually wide open. Did you roller skate before this? [Jackson] Um, a little bit. I mean, I went to a private Christian school in northern Idaho. And so every couple of months we would have Christian roller skating nights. Where we'd meet with other Christian schools and skate to like, Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith. I know. And, ah, so it was, I had a little bit of, ah, of a history with skating. But once I hit puberty, and I'm six four now, I didn't dare put on skates. I just got to the point where, if I fall, it's a long way to fall. Um, so, that was very daunting. The fact that, you know, most of my performance would be on skates. [Interviewer, unintelligible] [Jackson] Yeah, it's, [Interviewer] I thought you skated a long time. [Jackson] Yeah, no. [Interviewer] You had to [?] [Jackson] Yeah, I did. I mean, in the second workshop we did, we did put on skates a little bit. And, ah, mostly it was just kind of, circles. And then, across the back of the stage, kind of, holding the wall. It was not, you know, anything like it is now. And when I joined the show in June, um, you know, my skating was just not good. All I could do was, kind of just, stand erect and, kind of do a circle. So, in the final number they kind of had me come out, and, whoo, whoo, and thank you. I've just gotten better. Now I feel comfortable. Now, they can actually put me in the number. And now, I feel, I feel good. [Interviewer] Um, as far as, you started off [?] all of that. [Jackson] Yeah. [Interviewer] How is, um, just tell me a little bit about [?] with, [Jackson] Yeah. [Interviewer] how things like a new role. [Jackson] Uh, huh. [Interviewer] But in this show [?] epicenter, [Jackson] It's true. [Interiewer] Tell me a little bit about [?] [Jackson] Playing this show with the audience is, ah, it's been kind of a tricky thing, because I've never been really that much of a laugher. I've never really, ah, it's never. Laughs really don't, as a comedian, of course you always really want to get the pay off. You want bah, rum, bum, bum, and get the joke. But, because the show is so quickly paced, what we found is, if we don't get laughs, it really sucks. And backstage everybody's, you know, morale gets down. So what we found a way, we would just, kind of, gauge the audience right off the bat. And my, I start the show on stage, five minutes prior, doing my, mural. And, immediately when I start the monologue, I can gauge, what, I don't know how to say this. ah, I can gauge the sophistication level of the audience by their response to the first monologue. And so all of us have kind of found a way to, um, we know what they're going to respond to. If it's a really, really gay crowd, then we know that, um, the high, [Interviewer, unintelligible] [Jackson] Sure. Sure. [Jackson] Yeah. If it's a really, really gay crowd, and really exuberant and, and boisterous then we know what's going to work. If it's a tourist heavy crowd with lots of, the other night we had, twenty eleven year olds on stage. We know, maybe what not to emphasize so much. And what, maybe what they're gonna get. So, really, all of us have found a way to kid of, where we hit the joke. Where to, kind of, you know, don't waste your time there, 'cause [?] It's been a really good training ground, especially with this type, of, ah, fast moving camp. [Interviewer] How gay is this show? How do you go back from a performer, [Jackson] Yeah. [Interviewer] and, ah, [Jackson] How gay is this show. That's a question I get asked a lot. And this show is, it's just gay enough. But, it's a gay show, I think, in the history of the gay world. And in a good way. Because a lot of people, [Laughing] a silly quote, I know, but, um, It's just, it's what people, it's what the gay people want. They want all of their jokes, they want all of their, camp. They want all of their references. They want all of their Olivia Newton-John hair. And they want all of that, fabulocity. Um, and then the people, the ah, the sophisticated, you know, New York audiences, it's just enough to where they feel like they're, they're feeding that side of them. And then the tourists that come in, they feel kind of, ooh, this is a side of life, and I feel kind of naughty and fun. Um, so I think it's, I think it's just gay enough. [Interviewer] I think that's [?] because they think that too. Tell me a little about Sonny. [Jackson] Yeah. [Interviewer] What he wants, what happens in the show. [Jackson] Yeah. [Jackson] Sonny is, I really, really love him. And first of all, I always think it's weird when actors talk about their characters in third person but, can I? [Interviewer] Yes. [Jackson] Kinda you just gotta. Um, Sonny is, He's an artist. He's a beach artist. He is so, full of life. He is so joyful. And it's really fun, I think, to play somebody who is just, so positive. Everybody, um, I've been, the last couple things I've done, especially on Broadway, have been kind of just brooding, types, that have all this, you know, heaviness on their shoulders. And they have, you know, something to prove. He just wants to create, the ultimate utopia of art. And whatever that means to him. And, ah, so, I also think he's a stoner. I also think, um, he, he loves the whole muscle beach aspect of, ah, Venice Beach, um, I think he's an innocent. Um, I don't think there's a cynical bone in his body. And I think his comedy comes from just the situations he's put in. And so, it's very important for me to, always remember the truth, of what I am looking for in each, in each scene. The objective. Because when you're on stage with, Kerry Butler and Jackie Hoffman and Mary Pesta who are all three, stellar comedians. The, nat, natural inclination is to want to, get right up in there and wacka wacka. But, I have to stay, true to what I'm, searching for as, Sonny. And it's, I love it. I have to say. [Interviewer] [?] can you just close it up a little. [Jackson] Yeah, yeah. [Interviewer] Um, so, tell us about your life. I mean, tell me something about your journey. [Jackson] Yeah, yeah. [Interviewer] Where are you from? And how did you find your way to New York City. [Jackson] I'm from a little town, ah, in northern Idaho. Called Oldtown, Idaho. It has twelve hundred people, in the town. Ah, my parents are actually, ex hippies from Southern California, very familiar with the beat artist scene in Venice, and, I don't even think, my producers necessarily know that, but, it, ah, it was a big part of their, their existence at the time. And, so I'd actually culled a lot from pictures and things that my parents, um, to create this part. But, then they, um, became born-again Christians. And they, literally took a map out and said, we don't want our children to grow up thinking the sky is brown. I. e. the smog in Southern California. So they looked and they went, [tapping noise] Oldtown, Idaho. Green. Flourishing. Northwest. Let's go there. So, they, ah, moved my older brother and me. I was just, I was just like, eight months old. To this little town. We lived on, we lived on forty acres. My dad built our house. We had, um. For a time we had no running water. We had a outhouse. And, insulation on the walls. And it was, you know, chickens and, um, grew potatoes. And it was a great, great, amazing childhood. My mom stayed home. My dad was a cop. Um, my mom taught me to sing when I was about four. And she was a fantastic singer in her own right. I think if she wasn't, I think if, had different circumstances come her way, she would have been a big star in her own right. Um. So, that's where I started. That's where I came from. We, the town was really small. My parents still live there. So, really it was just, um, a great, kind of, Norman Rockwell childhood. Played sports. Sang in the choir. You know, had a pretty girl friend. And then, I was seventeen, and I thought, I just, I can't stay in Newport. I can't stay in Spokane, Washington. Which was the biggest city around. So, I moved to the biggest city around, which was Seattle. And I moved to Seattle, and I stayed there for seven years. And I worked in community theater and I got my equity card. Kind of dabbled, in theater. I loved it. And people definitely responded but, um, it didn't pay the bills. So I worked at, um, a magazine. "Full Rent," magazine. Kind of like, a free periodical, when you're looking for an apartment. And I worked at that magazine in sales up until six years ago. And then, um, nine eleven happened. And also we had a death in our family. Our immediate family. And, both of those instances, just knocked me on my ass. And I thought, you know what, life is short, and, I just, if this is going to happen for me, I need to make some thing happen. So, I quit my job. And, ah, I moved to New York. And, I had one contact in New York. Marc Kudisch. Who I had understudied in a horrible production of, "The Prince and the Pauper." In Seattle. And he said, "Dude you need to move to New York." You know, "You're a leading man." And, ah, he hooked me up with his agent, and I auditioned for my first show, which was, "Thoroughly Modern Millie." I booked it. And, um, I've been working my tail off ever since to try to, catch up to the other kids. [Interviewer unintelligible] [Jackson] Yeah, I mean, I don't like to tell that story to a lot of actors, just because they, you know, they're not gonna have a chance to say, "Screw you. Well, you didn't pay your dues." But, I did. I paid them in the Northwest, [laughs] believe me. Um, but, yeah, it was definitely a universe wave thing. This is where I needed to be. I didn't go to school for acting or singing. But it was just, ah, my mom taught us, and, um, since then, I've, [horn honks in background] studied with some of the greatest and, ah, it's, um, really trying to make up for lost time. And I love it. And I [horn honks] stay focused and motivated, and, just turned on by new projects. Xanadu being one of them. [Interviewer] How is your family taking this [?] moved to New York City. [Jackson] Yeah. [Jackson] They love it. [Interviewer] Who loves it. [Jackson] My parents love, New York City. They come here, they come to everything I do. They've been so supportive. They go to, every show I've done. I've done five, I guess five Broadway shows. Um. Everything they can. And, I mean, it's, you know, a seven hour flight. But, they come here. And my dad hates the big city, but they do, and, and, My mom's my number one fan. I mean, they just, it's never waned. And without that support, I don't know if it would be as fulfilling. You know. [Interviewer] [?] New York [?] they want to, [Jackson] No. And I think mainly because, I moved to New York when I was twenty seven. And not seventeen. You know, I was seventeen and eighteen and started musical theater and people said, "Oh, you know, you have something special." "You should move to New York." And I think, had I, when I was eighteen or nineteen, it would have spit me out, made me, you know, I could have got in a lot of trouble. I think because I went, as an adult, and I knew who I was, I didn't, I wasn't, you know. I didn't fall into any of that. I knew who I was. I knew what my goals were. I was focused. [Interveiwer] Besides knowing who you are, were you ever questioned about being in the closet or out of the closet, [Jackson] No. [Interviewer unintelligible] [Jackson] Yeah. Yeah. Um, it was never being out of the closet. It was never something, that I really ever thought about. I mean, and I know that sounds, maybe, glib. But, um, I'm just a really open person. For better or for worse. My agents, publicists people with, perhaps wouldn't want me to be this open. But I just, it's just the way I am. I always have been. Um, I use this story. Like, every time I start a new project. I always say, the very first day, I think. I ought to be that guy in the corner that is, that is really mysterious and brooding and doesn't say anything. And everybody says, "Oh, you know, what's his story? He's so, you know. He's that cool actor guy." And literally, that lasts until the first break, of the day. And then I just, blah, blah, blah. I'm open. It's just the way I am. And I've learned to embrace it as an adult. And so that, kind of, played into if I was going to come out or not. I mean, I'm, I don't get cast as the gay best friend in any projects, so I figured, I'm always playing the big leading man who kisses the pretty girl. And that's always been that way. So, if I can just never be in the closet. Then I guess I never have to come out. So, I came out when I was nineteen. And, ah, it was never something, I mean, out to my parents, who are very religious. My brother's a pastor. He sometimes preaches on, "The 700 Club." I mean, so I had some obstacles, you know, in all of those decisions. But, um, it was during, um, "All Shook Up," when I did, the Elvis show a couple years ago. It was my first big break. And a big, billboard with my face in Times Square. And the, "New York Times," called and wanted to do a piece on me. And part of the, the deal was they wanted to talk about me being out. And, my agents, at the time, supported me completely. And, I loved that. I think anybody who's gonna be, on my team, or, you know, one of my peeps has to know that's just kind of the way it is. I want my, talent and my, my character to speak for who I am. Not, you know, who I sleep with. [Interviewer] Your parents came around? [Jackson] Yeah. Eventually. It took 'em a few years. I mean, you know. [Interviewer] Who? [Jackson] Sure. Sure. It took my family a few years to, to come to terms with everything. And maybe just to mourn what they thought, they wanted my life to be. Um, I think that's normal and natural. And so, we had to go through all those things that every family does. But, um, they have really, I give them such credit, because they have really grown, and, and, our relationship, thus, has grown because of it. [Interviewer] What do you think of the community here? The gay community. You've been very active supporting [?] things like that. [Jackson] Yeah. [Interviewer] Is that [?] [Jackson] I do. I, the gay community in New York is obviously, ah, you know, huge and important, and I do, until I have a lot of money to give to these organizations, which I don't yet. Um, I want to give my time. And, you know, people tease me that I do a benefit every single week and, "Don't you ever say no?" And I do, believe it or not say no, it's just that I feel like, if somebody's going to, if fifty or a hundred more people are going to go to an event, because I'm going to show up and sing a song. It's hard for me to justify me staying home and watching, a rerun of, "America's Next Top Model," when I could be out, helping a cause that I care about. So, um, yeah, I do try to stay active. I'm really, I'm just now, um, really getting involved with AMFAR. I'm on the host benefit committee now. I've done some stuff with them, and, um, you know, lesbian, gay, transgender and I think, questioning, I think you have to add questioning on that line. Um, censor, and, yeah, I mean, I take, I take, my position and my respon, I take it seriously. I know, it's not something that everybody necessarily wants thrust upon them. I mean, like, being the poster boy for, gay causes. My friend, Chris Sieber and I, we always joke, everytime our names are mentioned anywhere, it's always, openly gay, Cheyenne Jackson. Openly gay, Chris Sieber. Which, frankly, I think is just kind of, boring and, reductive. But, I understand it. I get it. One of my best friends is Black and he said, growing up there were no Black families on TV. And occasionally, like, a Burger King commercial would come on. And a Black family would be on. And the whole family would run out, and they would watch it. And they would get so excited because they were represented. And I think that's, that's something beautiful and sad, but great about that. And I understand if people want to be represented. And, you know, if people look up to me and feel like, I represent something to them, that's great. And they do. I get so much mail from, young kids and, [Interviewer] Tell me about your film work. [Jackson] Yeah. [Interviewer] [?] not just the [?] film, tell me about that. [Jackson] Yeah. I was just kind of, you know, stepping into the whole film side of things. It's never been something that I've, um, actively pursued. But it was always something that I wanted to, when the time was right, I thought it would happen. I'm not incredibly, um, what's the word. I haven't been incredibly ambitious, when it comes to that. But I always felt like, when the time was right, the right projects came along. Um, so yeah, it was, ah, a year and a half ago, "United 93," they were having auditions here in New York. And, um, they were casting a lot of theater people and people with improvisational skills, and, I'd never done improv, but I just had a feeling I would be good at it, 'cause, I kind of have the gift of gab, and, I don't know, I just, I grew up playing make believe, so I thought why not, and, it was one of those things, where just the stars lined up, and, I had, several call backs and I met with the director. And it was a beautiful, life changing experience. We filmed in London, and, to play someone that was a real person, and, um, [Interviewer] say who you played. [Jackson] Yeah, I played, um, Mark Bingham. [Interviewer] and say in what show. [Jackson] Sure. Sure. Um, in, in "United 93," I played Mark Bingham. And to play someone who is, a real person, it's just, there's so much more than just researching a character, you know. I felt a really huge sense of responsibility, and all of us did on the film. And I did everything I could to, just, embody him, you know. Every picture I could find. Every, every, you know, recording of his voice. Every kind of transcript ever. I, I put 'em up, every, we were staying in this crappy little hotel in Slough, London. And I pasted them all up in my little room, just so I could kind of, breathe it in and, you know. 'Cause we weren't asked to do charactorizations of these people, you know. [Interviewer] Did you meet his family? [Jackson] I did. I did meet his family. His mom, um, is fantastic. She and I did, "Larry King Live," together. And, ah. Yeah, it, it's just been, it's almost even. So many people haven't seen, "United 93," and I understand. I think, had I not, been in, it, I probably wouldn't have seen it either, because it's so hard. But, um, it was, it was amazing. And it was a great first, first experience. [Interviewer] [?] What's it like working with Kerry Butler? [Jackson] Ah. Kerry Butler. I had seen her in many things before. And,ah, always been a fan. She's obviously a great physical comedienne. Obviously is a fantastic instrument. Um. [Interviewer unintelligible] [Jackson] Sure. Sure. Oh, sound wise? [Interviewer, unintelligible] [Jackson] Oh, yeah. [Interviewer, unintelligible] [Jackson, sighs] So, yeah, working with Kerry Butler. I, had, ah, been familiar with her before. I saw her in, "Hairspray." And I saw her in, ah, ah, "Little Shop of Horrors." And I think, I, I mean, she's obviously a great physical comedienne and a fantastic voice, but, um, I'd never seen her in something where all of her, very unique, talents could be all combined into one thing. And, you know, going into this, I'd only seen Jane Krakowski do the part in workshops and such. And, ah, Chris, and the producer said you gotta see Kerry do this. It's just, it's out of this world, and, I just, I went in and I watched and she blew me away. She just, she makes such strong choices and she's grounded and she's solid. And, ah, I, I totally dig her. I've learned so much from her. She's focused. She never, you know, we're, she'd been on stage. Sometimes there's twenty drag queens sitting behind us on stage. Sometimes there's ten year olds. Sometimes there's people passing bags of Skittles back and forth. Tony and I are, [laughs] we get distracted and Kerry's like, totally focused. So, she's a pro. I have, and we really, our relationship has really grown. You know, me going into this show with such, kind of, strange circumstances for everyone and I'm like, really good friends with James Carpinello. So, um, it's a delicate situation. But really, just, we're all professionals and now we just, we love each other and our relationship has, really grown. I think our chemistry on stage has gotten even closer because of that. [Interviewer] Is there anything you'd like to add about anything? [Jackson] I don't think so. I feel good. Thanks, man. [Interviewer] Oh, no, tell them about Sardis. [Jackson] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [Interviewer] Right out there. Look out the window. [Jackson] Yes. Yes. As you can see here, Sardis. And, um, I am getting my own caricature at Sardis. I believe it's going to be in two weeks. And, quite frankly, I could pee my pants about it, because it's, it's a dream come true. It's amazing. And, um, people I look up to so much, Mary Testa, and, you know, Tony Roberts, these people that have them. And it's, it's a huge honor. And, ah, it's not something that I'm, taking lightly. It's pretty amazing. [laughs] [Interviewer, unintelligible] [Jackson] Thank you. [Interviewer, unintelligible] [Jackson] Yeah. [Interviewer] You say, "I am," your name and then "In the Life," [Jackson] Yeah. [Jackson] I am Cheyenne Jackson and you are watching, "In the Life." [Interviewer] Let's do it once [?] [Jackson] Okay. [Jackson] Hi, I'm Cheyenne Jackson and you are watching, "In the Life." [Interviewer and Female voice, unintelligible] [Sounds of equipment moving] [Interviewer] Thank you, so much. [Jackson] Yeah, you know what. [Mary Testa chuckling] [Jackie Hoffman] My brother [?] the Hasidic. He don't look good. [Testa chuckling] [Testa] [?] long. [Hoffman] He's become very religious. [Testa] Does he have those Payos? [Hoffman] He doesn't have Payos, but he has the beard, the gross [?] the untrimmed, [Interviewer, unintelligible] [Hoffman] Yes. That's the one. Very interesting. [Testa] What is it? [Hoffman] It's about, it's a good documentary about Orthodox Jews who are gay. [Testa] Really? [Hoffman] How they mingle with [?] and how they're not accepted. And how, [Hoffman] It's very good. Pretty well done. [Hoffman] You'd like it. [Testa] Okay. Sounds like a documentary. [Testa] Yeah, it's okay. [Testa] Yeah, the light is good. The light is warm. [Crew member, unintelligible] [Testa] Yeah, well, it's cold. [Testa chuckles] [Interviewer] There are a few things to be aware of, [?] look at me [?] [Testa] Mm, hmm. [Interviewer] and then my questions are not going to be heard. So, [?] [Testa] Right. [Interviewer] I'll help you with that. [Testa] I'll give you a space after you ask the questions so we don't overlap. [Interviewer] That's fine. [Testa] Yeah. [Interviewer, unintelligible] [Testa] Yeah, okay. [Hoffman] Oh, we have to do that? We have to repeat every question? [Interviewer] No, no, no. [Testa] Well, you know, we have to just be mindful of the fact he's, [Hoffman] Oh. [Interviewer] the questions [Testa] Yeah, okay, all right. [Interviewer] and now, [Hoffman] Why can't they hear about the question? [Testa] Because that's not part of the thing. [Hoffman] Oh. [Interviewer, unintelligible] [Testa] Yeah, okay. [Hoffman] Can I take a drink. [Testa] Yeah. [Hoffman] Look at the tablecloth. Isn't that, [Testa] No, drugs did that [?] [Hoffman laughs] [Interviewer] So, when I'm talking, talking to both of you and I'll ask questions. [Testa] Okay. [Interviewer] I have to say that when what's happening my feeling [Interviewer] [?] familiar with, [?] many of the you ask why [?] [Interviewer] I'm just trying to, what did you think when you were approached about doing, "Xanadu?" [Interviewer] I mean, and with that in mind, did you know much about, "Xanadu," when you were asked about it. The movie. [Testa] Well, it's so funny because I, we were both involved for so long. [Testa] There were two readings and two workshops that we were both involved in. [Hoffman] But when we knew it was actually going to happen, it was still kind of a shock. [Hoffman] That it was actually going to move. [Testa] Yeah. [Hoffman] I actually got the news when I was lying in bed, in the hospital, recovering from surgery. [Hoffman] So, you know, it didn't make me any better. [laughs] [Testa laughs] [Interviewer] when you were in the workshops, you weren't like thinking, this is a Broadway vehicle? [Testa] No. [Hoffman] I thought it was really funny, but, you know, we, I think we're both of the same mind set, that we're like, this isn't gonna happen. [Testa] You know, we've done, we've been around the block. [Hoffman, talking over Testa] Janes, as our producers like to call us. [Testa] Yeah, ah, we call it an experience. But, um, ah, you know, I always thought they were doing it for off Broadway. Well, I didn't know that Broadway was a possibility, and, [Testa] Every time they'd call and ask me to do a reading or a workshop, I was oddly always available. So, and I'm not always available, so I was like, [Testa] you know, sure that was fun. I'll do that again. So, it all came as a big surprise. And my agent called and said, "Are you ready for this?" [Hoffman chuckles] [Testa] "You're going to Broadway." I was like, which show are we talking about? "It's Xanadu." Really? Oh. Okay. [Testa] You know. Blase. [Interviewer] And did you, there's been a lot of talk about what people thought the reviews might be, [Testa] Mmm. [Interviewer] in the show. Did either of you have an idea that it might come [?] [Testa] I had no idea. I really had no idea. I don't know anything anymore. [Testa] I've decided that the longer I'm in show business, the less I know about how people are going to react to something. [Testa] And I think that, that's good. [Hoffman] I had hope, which is unusual, because I, normally am a person who doesn't have hope. [Hoffman] But I was really, I just thought the script was so funny and intelligent, that I, [Hoffman] I kind of had hope for the critics. I didn't have hope for, [Hoffman] it's staying power. [laughs] [Testa] When we had the lovely James Carpinello with us, he would say to me all the time, "Mary, what do you think?" [Testa] And I'd say, "I honestly don't know." [Hoffman] Yes. [Testa] "I really don't know. It could, it's anybody's guess." [Hoffman] Right. And, [Testa] It depends on the mood of the critics that night. It depends on so many things. [Interviewer] But, so many critics liked it. [Testa] I know. [Interviewer] So many critics liked it that it became kind of a surprise hit in a way. Right? [Testa] We had a lot of attitude. When we were in rehearsal. [Testa] And, and, I'd say, even still now, people will go, "How's it going?" [Hoffman laughs] Waiting for that other roller skate to drop if you will. [Testa] Someone just said to me the other day, "So, whatta you got, a couple more months maybe?" [Hoffman] Someone said that to you? [Testa] Yeah. A producer. [Testa] Mm, hmm. [Hoffman] Appalling. [Testa] Welcome to show business. [chuckles] [Interviewer] You don't have to roller skate in the show? [Testa] Uh, unh. [Testa] We do not have to roller skate. [Hoffman] That's why we're here today. [Testa] All of the ambulances in the city thank you. [Hoffman chuckles] [Testa] Or thank us. Yeah. [Interviewer] [?] as far as, you don't think this happens whether it was the, [?] lay around were you still hopeful that it might be accepted as a Broadway show. [Hoffman] We were working so hard, it wasn't, I was just like, all right, just do the next thing. Just do the next thing. [Hoffman] And just, it's like any rehearsal process. I think Mary's been through a lot more than I have on this level. [Hoffman] But, you just, [Hoffman] go with, [Hoffman] you know, that's what it is. That's the deal. [Testa] And also, this is not, so glitzy. I mean, I've been involved in other Broadway shows that have a lot more ah, ha, wow, to them then this. [Testa] This is really just a character driven and I think the biggest effect we have is at the end in the, [Testa] in the Zeus scene where there's, you know, a snake head and a centaur. And, [Testa] we don't really have big visual effects. [Hoffman] It's a bare bones, [Hoffman] kind of, [Testa] And the big mirror, we have the big mirror. [Interviewer] How about, how about saying something about working with Douglas Carter Beane on this show. [Testa] Douglas, ah, working with Douglas Carter Beane is always, ah, [Testa] fascinating. Because he, [Hoffman laughs] [Testa] he really is, he's funny as all get out. [Hoffman] Yeah. [Testa] You know, anyway, he's, I've known him for, [Testa] and you too, right? I've known him for like over twenty years. [Hoffman] Long time, yeah. [Testa] And, um, [Testa] and, it was amazing to watch him hone this script because it was a very different script the first reading of, "Xanadu," then it is now. there were like thirty people in it. [Testa] There were all these Eighties celebrities. There was, it was very different. [Testa] And each reading and workshop he honed it more and more and more and it was, [Testa] really fascinating to watch. And he's also a real good team player too. And that, [Hoffman] Yeah. [Testa] If you say, you know, this, what is this line, I don't, and you know, he really works with the actor too, so. [Hoffman] Mm, hmm. [Testa] You know, with a great collaborative process. [Hoffman] Yeah. And he wrote, [Hoffman] he wrote our parts for each of us. [Testa] Yeah. [Hoffman] So he wrote for both of us, so if it wasn't for him, [Hoffman] I mean, you know, who else but a middle aged homosexual would have both of us in the same show. [Testa] Exactly. [Hoffman] So, we really owe it, [Hoffman] to him. [Testa] Mm, hmm. [Hoffman] You know. [Hoffman] 'Cause people just don't do that anymore. [Hoffman] People don't even have one evil aging character broad, broad, [Testa, talking over] Yeah, they're sort of, they're always sort of evil, but they're never really evil. [Hoffman] They're like evil, but still pretty. [Testa] They're Disney evil. [Hoffman] Yeah. [Interviewer] Well, this is a good time to ask each of you about what parts do you play and about the duo scene. Who are you in the show and what are your objectives in the show? [Testa] Well, I'm Mel-pomene, or Melpo-mene. I never can pronounce it right. Who's the, [Testa] oldest of the muses. Who is very upset that she was passed over, [Testa] as lead muse. [Testa] And so she enlists the help, [Testa] of Calliope, [Hoffman] [?] [Testa] Yes. To, who's the muse of epics and I'm the muse of tragedy. To help her, [Testa] kind of get, [Testa] Kira. Who is named, [Hoffman] Undo the heroine. To put it, [Testa] Yea, undo the heroine. [Testa] By making her fall in love, which is not so horrible, really, when you think about it. [Testa] And I actually said this before in interviews but, [Testa] my character is really pissed because she calls me old. [Testa] Which is not really, very nice. [Testa] For a little blond muse to say. [Hoffman] Yes. [Testa] Mm. [Hoffman] Even though we are ancient. [Testa] Yeah. Even though we are all ancient, she calls me old. So, we exact revenge. And so the fun, the hilarity ensues. [Testa] Um, but, we're not, you know, we are good at what we do in our muse categories. You know. [Testa] I would like to think. You, Jackie? [Hoffman] Yes. [Testa] Yeah. [Hoffman] I'm the muse of epics. So, um, [Hoffman] which I try to incorporate in the show. And, you know, let's see, when can I go on too long. [Testa laughs] [Hoffman] So, [Hoffman] yeah really. And I get to play Aphrodite, goddess of love. So, you know it's a comedy. [laughs] [Testa laughs] [Interviewer] Is this fun for you to do this show? I mean, I'm sure you guys [?] [Hoffman laughs] It's fun for me, yeah. I, I that's why I love this part. Because, I mean, Doug really tailored it, like, [Hoffman] he knows our strengths better than any other writer out there. [Hoffman] You know, and he, [Hoffman] you know, again, God bless the day for lovin' the big, and lovin' the, you know, [Hoffman] just lovin' the over the topness of it. [Hoffman] Chris Ashley, our director really was able to, [Hoffman] like several people have said this to me, that, [Hoffman] Chris was able to perfectly ride the very fine line between being too campy and not too campy, and too big and not too big, and it's just, [Hoffman] perfect. You know, it's just right. You know, just the right level of, [Hoffman] of comedy that makes it really, really funny. And then it stops at just the right point. So, it's like, believable and fun and it's got a lot of heart to it. [Hoffman] But, yeah, we're the ones who are allowed to just have more fun than anybody, I think. [Testa] Mmm. Mm, hmm. We're given license. [Hoffman laughs] [Testa] But you know, the other thing about bigness. [Testa] You know, it's Broadway. [Testa] And, ah, you know, there's really not a lot of room for subtlety on a Broadway stage. And I would, [Testa] I would, ah, challenge you to find, even, in all of the musicals, ah, there is, there is a heightened reality. I sometimes bristle at the term, big. [Testa] Because there is a heightened reality that has to happen in a Broadway show. I mean, not in a play per se. But, in a Broadway musical. [Testa] Ah, things are heightened always. Even the most realistic of musicals have a heightenedness to them. So, [Testa] I, ah, I, we are, big, if you want to say that. But I think we're just full. [Hoffman] Not gonna get subtelties from, "Fantasia." [Testa] Exactly. [Hoffman] Everybody picks that up. [Testa] I know, with the big broad. Yeah, what about, "Fantasia?" Hmph. [Testa] Next question. [Testa laughs] [Hoffman] Check please. [Testa] Yes. Waiter. [Testa] This man is bothering me. [laughs] No, I'm just kidding. [Interviewer] [?] riding a fine line is also like on stage [?] Um, I think too. [Interviewer] Could you talk about that a little bit. About how gay the show feels as far as performing on stage for audiences [?] [Hoffman] When we get a family crowd, it doesn't feel as gay. When we get our gay audiences, who of course, are our best audiences, then it really, [Testa] Yeah. [Hoffman] ah, you know, it's just not necessarily a gay show. It's very gay friendly. And, [Hoffman] gay people get it more than anybody. But, I find that any theatrical experience, including my solo stuff, gay people get that more than anybody. So, [Testa] You know, because there's a lot of inside theater jokes and things like that in the show. I think that it is gay friendly. But I think Jackie's right, it is, [Testa] for the entire, you know, the entire, [Testa] range of people. [*Testa] But gay, the gay audiences are just more fun. They're more appreciative and they're more vocal about their appreciation, which always makes it just more fun to perform for. [Interviewer] Do you know early in the performance? You must know pretty quickly what kind of an audience, [Hoffman] We, yeah, [Testa] Yeah. [Hoffman] We know out of the gate. [Interviewer] Tell me about that. [Testa] Well, usually, when we come up in the, we come up in the elevator, with, we come up in two shifts. [Hoffman chuckles] [Testa] If the audience is, is, a, a larger gay audience than normal, they will start to applaud, and whoo! and yahoo! [Hoffman] Yeah. [Testa] and be vocal right off the bat. [Testa] With, um, family audiences, they are kind of like, [Testa] "What? What is this?" So they are silent, basically. [Hoffman] Yeah. [Hoffman] It doesn't start like a typical Broad, nothing about this is like a typical Broadway show. [Testa] No. [Hoffman] It doesn't start typically. It starts very, very differently. [Hoffman] So, 'til people get into it. You know, if they're on it. [Hoffman] Uh, i.e. gay. [Hoffman] They'll, [Testa laughs] [Hoffman] get into it, you know, much quicker. It'll take less, [Hoffman] you know, but it, sometimes it just has to grow on people. [Hoffman] And that's one of the things that's great about it. It's not the typical, you know, [Hoffman singing] "Here we are! We're muses!" It's not like that at all. [Testa chuckles] [Hoffman] It's a very subtle, [Hoffman] quiet kind of thing. Cool start. [Testa] I had someone say to me the other night, um, [Testa] a family. A woman, you know, with a family. Her father's an actor, so, I guess you can count him gay, even though he's got a family. [Hoffman chuckles] [Testa] Um, she says, um, "You have to know your Greek mythology to appreciate this show, come on!" [Testa] "You've gotta know the Greeks!" [Testa] You know, so like, yeah, you do. That helps. [Interviewer] So, so you've had, you've had some time to read the audience and see how open they are to [?] [Testa] I think so. [Hoffman] Yeah. [Testa] Yeah, kind of a little looser. [Hoffman] Yeah, a lot looser. [Testa] Yeah. [Interviewer] [?] do you each have a favorite moment on stage? As far as, [?] [Testa] Um. [Testa] I don't think in terms like that. [Interviewer] Please explain. [Testa] Um, because if you have a favorite moment, then you're favoring one moment over the other. And so I kind of, [Testa] Sometimes things go smoother than others. Sometimes, [Testa] the timings of things are really like effortless and great. And sometimes, [Testa] they feel a little forced. You know, personally, not, not in a, [Testa] um, but I try not to have favorite things. I can never answer that question. [Hoffman] It's a really funny comedy. I mean, a lot. [Testa] [?] Yeah. [Hoffman] we keep, you know, because we have more, we have much more freedom than a typical Broadway musical which is more the, [Hoffman] stick up the ass, uptight situation. We have like, ah, much more room to play and stuff. [Hoffman] So, you know, we keep, people keep discovering stuff, and finding stuff, and it just gets funnier and funnier. [Hoffman] Yeah, then this one found something that kills me. [Testa] Aah. [Hoffman] Filthy hah! [Testa] I am, I actually have always enjoyed, ah, and I said this in early interviews. [Testa] Um, I have, I've always enjoyed a walk on that Jackie does. [Hoffman] She told me once. [Testa] No, I totally enjoy it. [Hoffman] Totally silent. [Testa] And I actually used to, ah, do something in that moment. I've stopped now. Because I, I decided I'd give it over to your walk on. [Hoffman] Oh, thanks. [Testa] You're welcome. [Testa] I used to sniff the money but it doesn't work anymore, so now I just stand still while you walk on like Quasimodo. [Hoffman] People are just confused, you know. [Hoffman] Yeah. [Testa] It's okay. [Hoffman] I just do Quasimodo, you know. [Testa] It's accumulative. [Hoffman] Yeah. [Testa] Mm. [Interviewer] Do you have fun with the audience out there? [Hoffman] Oh, yeah. [Testa] Yeah. [Testa] And we have a, we have a great number of Fanadus or Xanadus, or what do they call themselves? Do crew. [Testa] Ah, who have seen the show, [Testa] more times than, you know, we've had breakfast. [Hoffman] Yes. [Testa] Um, you know, we've had them seventies, eighties, hundreds of times. And that's not an exaggeration. That is actual fact. [Testa] So, they very often sit on stage. [Testa] And they're lovely, because they're very supportive obviously of the show. [chuckles] [Testa] When we have them on stage, we know they will start applause. And star, if the audience is dead, they will, [clapping noise] applaud for things, sorry, boom. [Testa] Um, and, ah, they, um, they keep things lively for us. [Interviewer] to a front row and said, "Is this what gay people call dares or something?" Do you remember that? [Testa] Those three guys. [Hoffman] Oh, yeah, that's right. [Interviewer] Has it happened more than once? [Hoffman] It's, it's, I was told not to do it at all, so it's happened a lot. [Testa laughs] [Testa] Jackie has that moment in the show where, if she wants to go, she can go. [Testa] I mean, even though, ah, she's not supposed to, [Testa] it's really a good moment in the show for her to do it. And if, if the audience is uptight, [Testa] it sometimes opens the audience up, loosens them up. And then they sort of, [Testa] you know, giggle a little bit more and they get themselves going. It's pretty far into the show but it's a good time for her to do it. So. [Hoffman] Our director won't be watching this. [Testa] He probably will, but. He's in California, so. Hi, Chris! [Hoffman] All bets are off. [Testa laughs] [Interviewer, unintelligible] [Interviewer] want to bring this [Interviewer] What do you think [Testa] Well, he's tenacious and that's a wonderful, ah, that's wonderful for a producer to have. I believe this is his third theatrical production. And so, it's wonderful that he's successful. [Testa] He knew what he wanted and he went after it. Which is kind of a wonderful example to people. If you believe in something, you can make it happen. [Hoffman] I don't understand his attachment to this particular project. But I'm glad he, [Hoffman] had the, like Mary said, had the tenaciousness to go through with it. We're all benefiting from his, you know, [Testa] Exactly. And you know, he really, [Hoffman] And what could you be attached to, this film. Like, why? [Testa] You don't know why. [Hoffman] Why. And then after they see it they sort of understand. [Testa] Yes. [Interviewer] You've answered my questions. Is there anything you want to add? Or I forgot to ask you, anything like that? [Testa laughs] Have I made you uncomfortable by my, [Interviewer] No. [Testa] Okay. [Testa laughs] I've been uncomfortable many times by a lot bigger than you. [Testa] Um. [Hoffman] You want to make a gay appeal? [Testa] Oh yeah, you have to. [Interviewer] [Testa] Yeah, yeah. [Interviewer] Could you do that? [Testa] Yeah. [Interviewer] I was just about to ask you about that. I am and you are watching, "In the Life." [Testa] Okay. [Interviewer] Um, face the camera. [Testa] Well, don't worry, we know where the camera is. [laughs] [Testa] Hi, I'm Mary Testa. [Hoffman] And I'm Jackie Hoffman. [Testa] You're watching, "In the Life." [Hoffman] The show for gays, by gays. [Testa] And we want to make an appeal to you. Jackie. [Hoffman] Please help. [Testa] Please come and see our show, "Xanadu." You will have a wonderful time. [Testa] Jackie. [Hoffman] People think it's your average Broadway musical, but it's not. It's very gay friendly. [Hoffman] Please help. [Testa] We just have much more fun when the gays are in the audience. Please come. [Testa laughs] [Interviewer] Thank you. [Hoffman] At least a hundred thousand for the A's. [Testa] Mm, hmm. Yes, thank you. [Interviewer, unintelligible] thirty seconds, [Equipment moving noises] [Kerry Butler] Mm, hmm. [Butler] Okay. [Equipment moving noises] [Unintelligible voices] [Interviewer] Okay, so, um, [?] [Butler] Mm, hmm. Okay. [Interviewer] And, um, mix things up. I'm not a [?] reporter. [Butler] Okay. [Interviewer, unintelligible] [Butler] Then I have to repeat your questions for you. [Interviewer] [?] I'll help you with that. [?] Please stop, go back. [Butler] Okay. [Interviewery, unintelligible] [Butler] Okay. [Interviewer] Okay, um. [Interviewer] Well, first of all, what I need to do is ask, ask you what character do you play? And what, what, ah, how do you prepare [?] [Butler] Okay, um, I play Clio, a Greek Goddess Muse, um, who transforms herself into Kira, which is actually my main part throughout the show. Um. And, ah, so that's who I disguise myself as. And Kira um, has an Australian accent. And so she is sent to earth to inspire art in Sonny Malone. [laughs] [Interviewer] And Sonny Malone is played by, [Butler] Sonny Malone is Cheyenne Jackson. And I also play like a little part, Tangerine, who is a southern girl. So these are all of my different muse disguises. [laughs] [Interviewer] How familiar were you with the script of, "Xanadu," [Butler] I watched, I loved the, "Xanadu," movie, um, when I was little. I remember going to see it. I was a huge Olivia Newton-John fan. And, um, and so I was thrilled to see it. I loved it. And then I watched it again, you know, when I got the show. And, ah, I thought, hmm, it's not really the way I remember it. [laughs] But, ah, it's, it's fun. [laughs] [Interviewer] So, how does it feel to play a role that Olivia Newton-John played, and I understand she was in the audience opening night, tell me about that. [Butler] Olivia Newton-John was in the audience on opening night and I was so nervous, because I, you know, she, I learned to sing from her. I would, I would sing her songs in my back yard. And charge, you know, like, twenty five cents to anyone to come and see me sing her songs. So I sang all these songs when I was little, and in the show, um, I do, ah, sort of an impersonation of her, a little bit. In, just in my singing style, not in the acting at all. Um, so I was nervous she might think I was making fun of her when it really is just, [laughs] ah, paying tribute to her. Ah, and so I was, I was only [?] during the show, and, as soon as the show started, I could see her in the audience, and she was laughing, hysterically. So she got all the humor and, you know, she could laugh at herself. She was just, a great sport. And she loved the show. So that was so exciting. [Interviewer] I'm just going to ask you to ask during the beginning of that answer, [Butler] Oh, you were talking, [Interviewer] [?] very quick. [Butler] Oh, okay. Okay. [Interviewer] you got into that how, [Butler] Oh, ah, I loved Olivia Newton-John? [Interviewer] Yeah, you played that part, [?] [Butler] Oh, okay. Um, so growing up, I loved Olivia Newton-John. I was a huge fan of hers. And, you know, to now be playing the part of ? was so exciting, um, but also nerve wracking, when she came to the show. [laughs] [Interviewer and crew talking] What was the experience, What is that? [Butler] Maybe there's a phone back there. [Crew member] Is there a phone, Susan? [Sound of equipment moving] [Interviewer] Is there a problem [?] [Interviewer] Okay, um, [Interviewer] Oh, "Xanadu," was not necessarily a movie that was, [Interviewer] all that big for Olivia Newton-John's career, I mean, as this, "Xanadu," was coming together, were you, [Interviewer] were you, [?] Broadway hit, did you have that, [Butler] Ah, we, I think we were all unconcerned, um, about how it came out, because we were doing a, even though, whenever you're doing a new show, it's like, you never know for sure, whether it will, be good or bad. Because when you're in it, you're just so in it, that you can't see the big picture. Um. And, ah, so for sure, all of us, ah, were concerned, you know, the movie was a flop, and, ah. But I feel like that, those are the best things [?] in a musical, because if you're going to do a Broadway, musical of a movie, you may as well start with something bad and make it better. [laughs] Rather than, you know, starting with something that was a huge hit as a movie, that can't be improved upon. [Interviewer, unintelligible] [Butler] Oh, it is. I don't think so. It doesn't sound like it's coming from here. No. It sounds like it's coming from back there. [Interviewer and crew discuss noise] [Interviewer] I'm not hearing, [Butler] Hmm. [Interviewer] How long, [?] [Interviewer] How does this compare with some of the other musicals you've done on Broadway? As far as, the audience, [?] [Interviewer] Um, if this isn't, if this isn't [?] [Butler] Ah, having the audience on stage, is definitely, ah, challenging, and fun at the same time. But you have to have such, strong focus in the show, you know, like, sometimes a little thing wrong can [?] on stage with you can, ah, it just throw you and then ah, all of a sudden, I'll be like, where am I, what, because the words aren't, um, the way I normally speak, you know, it's very stylized. And so I have to stay so focused so that I don't, like, lose where I am. And, um, sometimes the audience members are so, into the show that they'll be on stage and just doing things like singing all the words with you out loud. [laughs] So, ah, it's definitely interesting. [laughs] [Interviewer] You have some regulars. [Butler] Oh, yeah. We, we know them all. We have, um, people who come to see the show many, many times. I think one guy, Brandon, has seen it, definitely over a hundred times. Um, and we know a lot of our Fanadus, by name, and, you know, we love to see them in the audience because they're ah, so supportive and they still laugh at the jokes even though they've seen it a million times. [laughs] [Interviewer] Did you roller skate before you did this show? [Butler takes a breath] I roller skated, when I was a little kid. You know, like everybody else, I would have roller skating birthday parties. But I never, was good. I could basically make it around the rink. And, ah, so when they came to me and said, "Can you skate?" I said, "Well, yeah, I can skate, you know, from here to there, but I definitely don't do any tricks. I wouldn't call myself a skater." So they put me into lessons and, ah, It was, ah, hard, but I also loved it. And then when we started rehearsals, I was thinking, oh wait until they see, I, I got really good. You know I can do my arabesque, I can skate with my leg out. And I learned all the tricks but I didn't learn just basic blocking. So, on the first day of rehearsal, I thought I was going to be fired, because I couldn't even, like, do a little skate around Tony Roberts. And, ah. So this show has definitely been the most challenging thing I have ever had to do, because I even said to our director, Chris Ashley, I said, I'm not going to be able to act for the first month of rehearsals because I'm just going to be thinking, I'm stopping with this foot, I'm pushing off with this foot. I have to go around here. You know, it was just. I felt like my brain was going to explode. [laughs] [Interviewer] Is that why you rehearse every night? [?] In rehearsals, I would, after I finish, I would rehearse every night. [Butler] Oh. [Interviewer] Before each show, [Butler] Before each show I go over my skating. Yeah, I just do that, just because every time you're on the skates, it is different, like, the, just, in your own body. Like your balance could be off. Or your skates, a tiny little thing could completely throw your show. So, I just skate every show. Yeah. [Interviewer] Can you, like that. [Butler] Is that okay? [Interviewer and crew] Better the other way. I think the other way. [Butler] Oh. [Interviewer and crew] Yeah, it's like, [?] How could anybody, [laughs] [Crew] Turn that way. And that's [?] [Crew] [?] people. [laughs] There. [Butler] Ha. [Interviewer] Um, were you surprised at all the, how good the response was? [Butler] Ah, yeah, I was shocked about the critical response. I mean, we knew that, some people would get it. and we thought a lot of people, probably wouldn't get it. Ah, and, ah, Like, I couldn't believe that the people who got us were the "New York Times." And, you know, like, when we heard it was a rave in the, "Times," we were all screaming and jumping around, because it just didn't seem like, I mean, you never know what's gonna hit. You never know what individual is gonna like what show. And then, to have it pretty much across the board, be like these amazing reviews, was, I never, I don't think any of us expected that. I think we thought it was a show you either like or you don't like, you know, [?] but it seems like, it's, you know, whether you're old, or whether you're eight years old, people love the show. [Interviewer] What about all this talk of [?] how gay is it? Do you have a sense of that [?] [Interviewer] [?] in ways you've never had before in your performance. And do you get a sense of that from other performers? [Butler] We know when our gay friends are in the audience. We love our gay audiences. They are, completely different, like, Cheyenne will come off and say, "Ah, the gays are here." [laughs] They're just so supportive and they get a lot of, I think, a lot of the shows, is written with gay humor. You know, they just get some of the jokes that, um, people don't, that a lot, you know, a more mainstream audience doesn't get. Um, just even, like, stupid things, like, um, I lost my mind, it's a blank right now. There's a reference to, um, that older movie, that movie in our show, ah, "Clash of the Titans." [laughs] And, um, you know, certainly a lot of our mainstream audience doesn't even get that joke and you know, it doesn't land at all. But when if there's a gay, big gay crowd, like there's a huge response. And like, so certain things, Jackie and Mary get a huge response. It's really fun when, when you go showtime. [laughs] [Interview] Um, how is the theater itself, how is the Hayes, how's that working for you? [Butler] Um, the Helen Hayes is very interesting. They don't usually have, ah, musicals there. It's usually a one person show. So, our backstage situation is, um, definitely less than glamorous. We all are in cubicles, kind of. And you hear everybody's conversations overhead. Um, so, I mean, in that way it's fun. I'm right next to Jackie and Mary. So, they keep me entertained the entire time. I just eavesdrop on their conversation and occasionally, like, yell a line over at them. Um, but, it's also very challenging, because we're constantly sick all the time, I don't even know if you can tell I have a cold. I never get sick. So many people on this show never get sick, and we're, like, I'm on my sixth, cold. And Jackie and Mary have had, been on antibiotics, like, four times. We just keep giving it back and forth to each other. So, that's annoying. [Interviewer] [?] working for, [Butler] Um, well, there isn't a bad, a bad seat in the house, because it's so tiny. And ah, you know, the audience just feels like they're part of this party. I think that's because, every seat is so close. Um, and, you know, there's a lot of interaction, people running through the aisles, and, so it's just, it really works for us to be in a small place, because it's, it's kind of what off-Broadway used to be. You know, people can't afford to do off-Broadway anymore, because, ah, you know, people don't want to pay the money [laughs] to go see off-Broadway and have long runs. So, our theater is kind of like, off-Broadway, on Broadway. [laughs]