In the Life: Ep. 1905, "Best of A Conversation with..."

[Announcer, over music] "In the Life," is funded in part by, [Announcer] The H. van Ameringen Foundation. [Announcer] Arcus Foundation. [Announcer] The Estate of Richard W. Weiland. [Announcer] And by the annual support of, "In the Life," members like you. [Music fades] [Narrator Triple Edwards, over music] Coming up: actors, writers and activists speak out, on, "In the Life." [Edwards] The best of our series. A conversation with ... [Edwards] Kathleen Turner and Edward Albee talk theater. [Edward Albee] So you write, "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf." You know what you're expected to write next? [Albee] "Son of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf." [KathleenTurner] Of course. [Edwards] Julian Bond and Jonathan Capehart discussed gay rights and civil rights. [Bond] The right to be married is a civil right. And I believe civil rights ought to be extended to everybody. [Edwards] And Julianne Moore and Christine Vachon take on Hollywood. [Christine Vachon] I think Todd Haynes said something once which is, somebody asked him if Hollywood was homophobic. [Moore] Right. [Vachon] And he said, "Well, it might be. But who cares. Money isn't." [Theme music] [Kathleen Turner] Your humor. Your sense of humor and your sardonic, [Edwards, narration over Turner] In our first conversation, [Edwards] director, author and star of stage and screen, Kathleen Turner, sits down with legendary playwright, Edward Albee. [Turner] So you've had some serious, [Turner] reactions, and, ah, to a lot of your work. [Albee] Oh yeah. [Turner] Some good and some not. [Albee] Some good and some have been rotten. [Turner] Yeah, um, I was thinking specifically about the Pulitzer Prize for, "Virginia Woolf." [Albee] Which they took away. [Turner] Which they took away. [Albee] Yeah. [Albee] But, that was okay kiddo. I got more mileage out of having that prize taken away then if [Turner] Did you really? [Albee] they had just left it with me, yeah. [Turner] But, you're not advocating bad publicity as better than none. [laughs] [Albee] Of course. [Turner laughs] What other pieces have suffered in that way? Well, um, after I wrote, "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" [Turner] Mm, hmm. Is that, you know, eventually a lot of good reviews, some of the first reviews from the, the, those daily newspapers that don't exist anymore. Like, "The Mirror," and those things.  [Turner] Right. They were pretty bad, you know. Plays that should be seen only by dirty minded women, or, [Turner] Oh, really. [Albee] Somebody else called it a garbage dump. Now they're been questions, throughout, the history of "Virginia Woolf," and others that, um, that it was originally based, [Turner] on, [Turner] homosexual partners. [Albee] Then, that meant probably, a play about two gay, two gay couples. Yes and I can remember what you said to me about it, but, [Albee] Well, that was so silly, you know. I'm quite capable of writing a play about gay people, if I want to. [Turner] Yeah. [Albee] I've done it . I, uh, but those two, was two straight couples. It was not. Everybody knew I was gay. And so obviously, Albee's gay, therefore he must be disguising, [Turner] Yes. [Albee] the, ah, [Albee] what he's doing. [Turner] Right, right. Some kind of subversive message. [Albee] But that was, there were a couple of critics,  [Turner] So, how is it changed now? [Albee] There were a couple of critics who were very famous for their homophobia. [Turner] Yeah. [Albee] They were really slamming at a lot of us. But then the reviews got okay and we had, we had a decent run with that play. But, so you write, "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf." You know what you're expected to write next? "Son of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf." Of course. Or, you know, "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf Two." [Turner] Two. [Albee] And then I had three absolute disasters, commercial disasters. I did an adaptation of James Purdy's wonderful novel, "Malcolm." [Turner] Mm, hmm. [Albee] Which was greatly admired by two people. James Purdy and me. And that was just about it. [Turner laughs] [Albee] I wrote a play about, ah, theatre journalism and critics, called, "The Man Who Had Three Arms." [Turner] Yeah. [Albee] And they didn't like that very much either. [Turner] What a surprise. [Albee] What a surprise. And another one that got blasted. And all of a sudden, I couldn't get a production in New York. Yeah. [Albee] Very interesting. But, you know, fifteen years after,  "Virginia Woolf," I couldn't get a production in New York. I was having productions in Europe all the time. [Turner] Sure. [Albee] And around the country but I was totally persona non grata in New York. Because I didn't write, "Son of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf." [Turner] Mm, hmm. [Albee] Basically. But, then things started to turn around again and now for a little while they're being nice to me. Don't know why. They're being lovey to you I read. [Albee] Yeah. [Turner] It must be your age. [Albee] Probably is. Yeah. Be nice to the old guy, right. [Turner] Yeah, right. [Turner] Where do you get your inspiration, sir? Uh, I usually say Schenectady. [Turner laughs] Uh, we're gonna let that one go. I don't know. I'm, I'm a writer, therefore I write. I'm a playwright, therefore I write plays. If you write plays, you're supposed to have ideas for plays. [Turner] Hmm. [Albee] I discover, every six months or so that I'm thinking about, a play that I plan to write. I don't know much about it. I leave it alone. [Turner] You've always said your characters find their own words, in some ways. [Albee] Of course. I have to know the characters  so well, that I can convince myself that they are talking. [Albee] I will go to a string quartet, listen, listen to some Beethoven or something. And I will start hearing lines from this play that I want to write. That's something that always fascinated me. That right at the beginning of rehearsals for, "Virginia Woolf," you had said, that you, ah, "I wanted to be a composer." [Albee] Mm, hmm. And so you heard, scenes and, as movements, you know. As al dente. Or lento. Or, you know. All these movements, in fact you could close your eyes, and listen to how the play went and know, if it was on track. If it was right. Exactly. [Turner] If the passage was in tune. Or, [Albee] A play is, A play is three things. It's a piece of literature. It is also a scene. A visual experience. [Turner] Yes. Ah, and it is also a heard experience. [Turner] Oh, indeed. And so, ah, a playwright notates exactly the right, uses punctuation exactly the way a composer notates. What about all the changes you've seen in the New York, theatrical scene, over the years. God, don't you think they're being, It's a completely different atmosphere. Of course it's a completely different atmosphere. Ah, that awful thing called commerce, [Turner] Yes. [Albee] has so completely taken over. The problem about, live theatre, is it costs so damn much, to put on. [Albee] Ah, so what's happening, is we're not getting, the, complexity of the audience, that we really need. No, no. [Albee] We're getting rich people. And most people aren't writing specifically or only for that audience. No, they're writing to be produced. [Albee] Yeah, but here's the problem. Um. More and more young playwrights, are being said. We're going to have a tryout. We're going to try out your play. We're going to have a reading of your play. And, and, he, and then we'll tell you what we want you to do with it. You know, if it's a tough play, we'll ask you to soften it a little bit. [Turner] Oh, I don't, you know. Take down all the language so it can't hurt anybody. [Turner] Yeah, could you be just as awful and as wicked and nice, [Albee] And we love it at it's complete length, but don't you think it should be a half hour shorter. Yes, people need to get home. [Albee] And the problem is, Ah, it's tougher and tougher for young writers to get their work done. [Turner] Mm, hmm. [Albee] And more and more of them are being asked to compromise, even before the fact. More commercial. [Albee] Yeah, of course. Safer. Easier. An audience that goes to the theaterc, for escapism, is a different audience, then the one that goes to engage and thinking about stuff. [Turner] So, why don't you write more escapism? [Albee, laughs] Well, I don't know how to do it. [Turner] I know. [Albee laughs] [Turner] Isn't that brave? [Albee] No. The only reason half of us don't sell out is 'cause we don't know how. [laughs] I agree. I agree. [Albee] So, what are you doing now? Well, I wouldn't mind a comedy. Do you know, I mean, You just did one. It was called, "Virginia Woolf." I did. I did. I did. But everybody's been after me for, "Sweet Bird of Youth. Now frankly, I don't need two such women back to back. [Albee] No. I'd really like a break in between those two. [Albee] I think so. So I think that, that's what I'm looking for now. There are a couple of new pieces which I'm finding very interesting. But they need work. [Albee] Mm, hmm. [Turner] So whether we can get the work done in time or not. [Albee] Yeah. [Albee] The right stuff will come along. It always does. [Turner] Yes, it does. [Albee] Yeah. Sometimes you have to wait a little bit. Thirty years. [Albee] You get it. [Turner laughs] [Turner] Thank you. [Albee] And, thank you, honey. [Theme music] [Julian Bond] of the marriage movement. And now she can become an icon. [Edwards, over Bond] And now Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and Washington Post Editorial Writer, Jonathan Capehart, [Edwards] talks with NAACP, Chairman Julian Bond, [Edwards] about the intersection of gay rights and civil rights. [Jonathan Capehart] You've been Chairman of the NAACP, since 1998, correct? [Julian Bond] Right. [Capehart] How has the organization changed or evolved, since this civil rights movement? Well, it has, um, changed focus in a slight way. Because we've always had the same focus which is fighting racial discrimination. We've done that since 1909, and I, I'm sorry to say we'll probably be doing it for some time in the future. Let's talk about the time back during the Civil Rights movement. And you've said, [Capehart] that there were many gays and lesbians involved in the movement of course and you credited them with shaping your views on gay rights. Did you know Bayard Rustin? Yes. [Capehart] Talk about Bayard Rustin. He was part of Dr. King's inner circle. He helped pull off the March on Washington in 1963. And he was gay. He, as you say, he was just a seminal figure in this movement because King, depended on Bayard for so many things. He was King's first educator in non-violence. And he just expanded Kings knowledge of this a hundred fold. [Bond] You know, Bayard wrote the first article, ever published under Dr. King's name. [Capehart] Hmm. [Bond] I think it was, I'm not sure, if it was in, "The Nation," magazine, but, ah, an article sort of revisiting the Montgomery bus boycott and saying what it meant and Bayard Rustin wrote that. [Bond] To say he organized the March on Washington really doesn't give him enough credit. He put this thing together. [Bond] Now, we're used to, you know, big protests in Washington, nowadays. It happens it seems almost every week or so. [Bond] But this was almost a first. And it was certainly the first involving black people. [Bond] And it was a first involving bringing people from all over the country here, [Bond] in Washington for this event. [Bond] And Rustin just was such a superb organizer. [Bond] Ah, he pulled it off and [snaps fingers] no problem. [Capehart] You're one of the few prominent members of the civil rights movement to come out full square in favor of, gay marriage. [Bond] It just seems to be something right to do. [Bond] It seems to me, that the right to be married is a civil right. [Bond] And I believe civil rights ought to be extended to everybody. Who, who ought not have these rights? [Bond] What, what category of people ought not have these rights? I can't think of one. [Bond] I've been married twice. [Bond] And I know how, what the benefits are, the economic benefits are to a couple. [Bond] And, ah, I don't want to shut other people off from these benefits. [Capehart] You opened the 20th annual Creating Change Conference. [Capehart] Um, sponsored by the National Gay and Lesbian, Task Force. You said then, quote, [Capehart] "Like race, our sexuality is not a preference.  It's, it is immutable, unchangeable [Capehart] "and the constitution protects us all against prejudices and, [Capehart] "discrimination based on immutable differences." What do you say to those who flat-out disagree with that assessment? Well, if they seem to be open to some kind of rational argument, [Capehart chuckles] [Bond] then I try to make a rational argument. Your sexuality is an immutable characteristic. It's something you're born with. You don't say, "Hey, I think I'll be gay. Ah, you are gay when you're born or you're not gay. So, what is the connection, between, the, civil rights movement, and the gay civil rights movement as we know it today. [Bond] At the bottom, it's these immutable characteristics. You are, what you are. And you cannot be discriminated against in this country, [Bond] for what you are. That's, that's the similarity that's the closeness. [Bond] And, and the fact that the black civil rights movement came to public attention, [Bond] before the gay civil rights movement, which is, [Bond] existing at the same time, but I don't think well known to people. [Bond] These draw from each other. [Bond] And the gay movement draws tactics and techniques, and, and songs and slogans, [Bond] as did the Hispanic movement. As did the women's movement. And it's not that these movements are, [Bond] taking from us. Because the black movement took from other movements before. We took from the labor movement. [Bond] And I never heard any people from the labor movement complaining about this. [Capehart] Mm, hmm. And for black people to complain about this, we ought to be proud of this. [Bond] Say, look what we did. We created a model that other people have followed. And they followed it successfully. Good for us. [Capehart] The widow of Dr. Martin Luther King, that was Coretta Scott King. Did you ever talk about this? No? I never did I never talked her about this. [Chuckles] But I qouted her as often as I could. And when she died, and it was announced that, Ebenezer Baptist Church, where her, ah, husband had been pastor, was too small, for the funeral ceremony, and it was instead headed, for a church run by a notorious homophobic, minister in Atlanta, I decided not to go. [Capehart] What should gay people know about her that they might not already know? [Bond] Well, first, I don't think many of them know that she was a strong advocate for, ah, gay rights for, [Bond] ah, all of the things that gay people want and need. [Bond] I think her advocacy of these things is relatively unknown. [Bond] And when I speak to audiences and quote her, I can see some of the people saying, "Really?" [Bond] You know, happily, but, "Really?" and so I think they could learn some more about her. She was in many ways a remarkable person. [Bond] And to think of her as the the wife and widow of Martin Luther King, in some ways diminishes her. [Bond] Because she was more than that. She was greater than that. She had a life of her own. She was an independent person.  Ah, so of course she was the wife. Of course she was the mother. Of course she was the standard-bearer after he died. [Bond] But she was more than that. [Capehart] You have gone basically around the country, um, campaigning against, um, anti-gay marriage amendments, ah, in various, in various states. Do you, were you, Did you voluntarily do this? Did people come to you, and say, you know, we could really use, your name and your stature behind this. Both those things happened. Um, the NAACP, ah, is opposed to these amendments. We don't have a position on marriage equality. We're neutral on that. Or agnostic on that. Ah, but we do oppose these amendments because we think it's wrong to single out any group of people, for special treatment. And that's what these amendments do. And so wherever they've raised their heads, we've campaigned against them and where I've been able to physically go, I've done it myself. [Capehart] Mm, hmm. [Capehart] Here's the closing, cosmic question. [Capehart] I am, [Capehart] a seventeen, eighteen year old, [Capehart] black kid, [Capehart] anywhere in the United States. Urban America. Rural America. Suburban America. Ex Urban America. [Capehart] And, I just don't get the connection, that there is even a connection between, [Capehart] the civil rights movement that you helped lead, and the gay rights movement that I see all sorts of people, [Capehart] ah, pushing and leading from people on television, people in politics, um, people in business. [Capehart] Why, one, why should I care? And two, what is that, what is the connection? Convince me. The connection is rights. Rights. That's the key word. These are movements for rights. And these are movements to ensure that, ah, everyone has these rights. And this seventeen year old kid, ah, may not think he's ever going to get married. Or, if he's straight is going to marry a woman. But, ah, this guarantees his rights. And if he's not interested in his rights, then I wouldn't spend much time talking with him. Thanks, Mr. Bond. Thank you. [Theme music] [Julianne Moore] And all these beautiful lesbians. [laughs] [Christine Vachon] Exactly. That's exactly what my life is like. [Edwards, over Moore and Vachon] And finally, [Edwards] longtime collaborators,  actress Julianne Moore and producer, Christine Vachon, [Edwards] discuss lesbian representation, homophobia in Hollywood and the state of queer cinema. [Julianne Moore] What do you think the criteria is for Hollywood to get behind a gay story? [Christine Vachon] I think Todd Haynes said something once which, I've always quoted. [Vachon] Which is, somebody asked him if Hollywood was homophobic. [Moore] Right. [Vachon] And he said, "Well, it might be. But who cares. Money isn't." [Moore laughs] That's great. [Vachon] And that's the truth. I mean. [Moore] How true, wow. You, know I think it's the same thing, will get Hollywood to get behind a gay story. I mean look at, "Milk." You know. [Moore] Yeah. I mean, "Milk," is a terrific script. Um, a terrific director. [Moore] Mm, hmm. Ah, and those two things are pretty much all you need, to get a terrific cast. Which it got. Well, does queer cinema still exist? Because I think, I feel like there was this sort of period, when it was like, queer cinema, queer cinema, and I'm like, huh? [Moore] I mean, I don't feel like, [Vachon] Well, [Vachon] I think a couple things. I think that it's important to remember that in the early nineties when that phrase was coined. [Moore] Uh, huh. [Vachon] It was kind of coined around, [Vachon] I think that Sundance in particular, where there was, "Swoon," an extraordinary film by Christopher Munch called, "The Hours and The Times," [Vachon] and, "The Living End," Gregg Araki's movie. [Moore] Yeah. [Vachon] And, um, and then, "Poison," had been the year before. And I think kind of, a couple things, one is, what we have to remember about the early nineties was AIDS. [Moore] Right. [Vachon] And the sense of urgency, that it inspired in a lot of, you know, gay or queer, or whatever you want to call them, filmmakers. [Moore] Right. [Vachon] In a sense that, you know they, that time was running out, and they had to they had to tell their stories. In a sense that, you know, they weren't, if they didn't tell their stories nobody would. Right. Exactly. [Vachon] And, um, and also at that time, and even with something like, "Go Fish," which is, much more lighthearted, Such a charming, I love that movie. But, even with, "Go Fish," there was no, I mean. [Vachon] Putting that out in the marketplace, I think people are gonna go see this movie because, it's basically about looking for love. [Moore] Uh, huh. [Vachon] It doesn't matter, you know, and that was absolutely true. But people are also gonna go see that movie because if you were a gay woman, there was nothing else for you to see where you got to see yourself up on screen. Right. [Vachon] Now, I think if we released "Go Fish," today, [Vachon] um, I don't think anybody, I don't think we'd be able to release it today. Really. [Vachon] Well, I think, [Moore] Because? [Vachon] that now people have other choices. [Moore] Yeah. [Vachon] You know, they can watch, [Moore] "The L Word." [Vachon] "The L Word." [Moore] Yeah. [Vachon] Exactly. Or, All these beautiful lesbians. [Laughs] [Vachon] Exactly. That's exactly what my life is like. [Laughs] [Vachon] And um, [Moore] Mine too. [Vachon] Yes. [Moore] Mm, hmm. [Vachon] And, ah, ah, so I mean, but also I think there's just much more choice. I mean there's just, You, know there's, there's television shows, there's means, I mean, and also then, you know, the notion of, of gay film festivals, was a way of bringing a community together that had no other way to gather. Right. And honestly now with the internet and DVDs, it's, just doesn't feel as, Urgent? [Vachon] It just doesn't. [Moore] Yeah. [Vachon] So I don't know, I don't, I, I guess, the, you know, the idea of, there's the idea of what makes a movie gay or not gay? [Moore] Mm, hmm. [Vachon] And then there's the idea of, like is there still really, you know, the, does the notion of a sort of, queer cultural, cinema exist. [Moore] Exist. Well you know, I'm asked that question, ah, occasionally too, ah, because of my work with these so-called queer cinema directors and stuff. And I'm like, well you know, I, I said, I feel like it's sometimes, I feel like it's reductive, [Vachon] Right. [Moore] because you're, you're sort of, you know, you're putting yourself in this little tiny box. When I think women's films that I've made, I feel are about, humanity. It's about what it is to be alive and to love somebody or to be ostracized or any of those kinds of things, so for me it's always, it's very, very much about all of us. [Vachon] Right. You know the queer slash gay community, has never, actually ever embraced the work I've done at the time that I've done it. [Moore] Interesting.  [Vachon] Except for, "Boys Don't Cry." That, whenever, I got, that I got a free pass on that. Really. But, ah, but, "Safe," I was criticized for not really addressing the AIDS crisis. Oh, come on. [Vachon] And, um, and then, "Swoon," was criticized for, being, remember, there was this whole outcry at that time, that the whole idea of negative images. [Moore] Mm, hmm. Oh, oh, oh. [Vachon] That oh, because they're murderers so you shouldn't have it. [Vachon] Right. [Moore] Yes, yes. [Vachon] Right. And there was around and then remember there's the boycott of, "Basic Instinct." [Laughs] [Vachon] Because Sharon Stone's, Sharon Stone's murdering character was a lesbian. [Moore] Oh, yeah. [Vachon] Although, you know, I, I was a little like, I don't know, you know, she's beautiful. She murders rich, awful men. That's right. Yeah, so you could say, Yeah, so it works for me. [Moore] Yeah. [Vachon] So, um, and then, "Go Fish," was criticized, 'cause then I thought, oh they can't get mad at me about this. [Moore] Yes, sweet little, you know, girls holding hands kind of movie. [Vachon] It's ageist. Ageist! [Vachon] Not have any, you know nobody in it was like over twenty two. Just adorable young things. [Laughs] So, Julie. [Moore] Yes, Christine. Yes. [Vachon] You, you remain committed to doing, ah, smaller movies. [Moore] Uh, huh. [Vachon] You don't seem like you're afraid of first-time directors. Not in the least. [Vachon] And, um, but and that's really unusual. And, um, you know but you still also do, you know, you still do some of those moneymakers too. Yes, you bet I do. [Laughter] You know an interesting thing has happened actually. When I, when I first started doing, when I was, when, Earlier in my career, when I, when I was kind of doing both. There weren't a lot of people doing both. Right. [Moore] It was sort of, it was sort of like you got to choose one or the other. [Vachon] Right. And I always did it, it was purely practical for me. Because, you know, when I, when you do an independent. I would choose, an independent film that i wanted to do. And you don't get paid. Right. [Moore] So I didn't get paid, so I would say, well I want it, I want to get paid, so I would do something where, um, where I'd be able to, you know, make a mortgage payment or something. [Vachon] Right. But what has happened, that's very interesting is, now because financing for an independent film has changed so dramatically, it's no longer this idea that you can make a movie for. We made "Safe," for just under a million dollars . That is correct. [Moore] And there was no expectation that, "Safe," would make money. [Vachon] Right. [Moore] The idea in the early days was that you're just gonna make back what you, [Vachon] Right. [Moore] you know, had paid. [Moore] And that was okay. Now, what has happened is, because people are so reluctant to finance an independent film at all, because they feel like, you know, how is this going to ever, [Vachon] Right. [Moore] ever be, ah, um, effective. They depend on actors, [Vachon] Oh, yeah. [Moore] who have some box office. [Vachon] Right. Particularly foreign box office. So, [Moore] my doing these, these, these bigger Hollywood movies has actually kept my career alive in independent films. [Vachon] Right. [Moore] Does that mean someday do I want to do something where they go, oh you know what, Julie is worth, la, la overseas, [Vachon] Right, right. and I can finance a film. And I don't think there's any danger now, I mean, I think that when I first started making movies, there was that thing of like straight actors didn't like to play gay. Really. [Vachon] It really was, actually I think what was more likely, was gay actors didn't like to play gay. Right. It was too hard for them. [Vachon] Because they were so anxious, that. Don't you think also, I mean, I think it's really interesting, because, we both have children around the same age. I, I feel like, ah, ah, the world has changed so much. [Vachon] Absolutely. [Moore] And I also think our sexuality has changed so much. And, and, our kids are growing up in a world where, lots of people in their class have two mommies or two daddies and where my children will say, when we played the game of, "Life," they say, do you want to be married to a girl or boy? Right. [Moore] routinely. Because they know that you can be married to either. Right. [Moore] So, I think that's Well, actually, you can't be married to either, but, [Moore] I know. [Vachon] But, anyway, I know, you know, but they think, [Vachon] Right. I mean we're sort of working that attitude toward, you know, that in some places, ah. [Vachon] Right. But, um, [Moore] what would it take for Hollywood to, ah, produce a movie with a lesbian protagonist? I really have to believe, and this may simply just be the only way I can do what I do. I really do believe that great material, finds its way, somehow to the top. And it somehow gets made. Now, there's been, you know, there's certainly been, ah, movies that I've spent, as you well know, a very long time trying to make. [Moore] Mm-hmm. But I, I do believe that, like, great material will attract, great actors, and will somehow, and I, you know what I mean it for the you know, it's not like "Savage Grace," made twenty million dollars. [Moore] No. [Vachon] But I know that, that movie's gonna be around, and people are gonna continue to talk about it, Yeah. [Vachon] and that it's going to be something eventually, that we'll all be very proud to have in our, in the long body of work, That's right. Yeah, yeah. You know when we're getting our Irving, when I'm getting my Irving Thalberg and you're getting your, [Moore] I'll present it to you. [Vachon] Exactly. [Moore] That's right. [Narrator Stephan Weinberger, over music] Thank you for watching, "In the Life." [Weinberger] To learn more about the issues in tonight's stories and how they affect you. [Weinberger] Visit our website at, in the life TV dot org. [Weinberger] You can also watch extended interviews, [Weinberger] sign up for monthly air date alerts, [Weinberger] and download past episodes 24-7. [Music fades] [Turner] When do you think the last time we saw each other was? I don't know. I remember, I remember that. Because, I remember the first time we had dinner together. [Turner] We had lunch actually. [Albee] No, it was dinner. [Albee] And it was in Miami, Florida. [Turner] Oh, gosh, you're right. [Albee] Yeah. [Turner] Oh but that's when I was doing, "Tallulah." Down in Palm Beach or something. [Albee] We're going down west street. [Albee coughs] South, just south of canal street. There was a building, it's all boarded up, and this big line, [Turner] Okay. [Albee] whole line of cardboard there. And somebody has printed on that, "You've got to have a swine to show you where the truffles are." Edward Albee. That quote from Virginia Woolf. Isn't that nice? [Turner] It takes a swine, to find them, yes, in the movie. [Turner] Well, that, that's enough, you know, [Albee] The line is, "You've got to have a swine, to show you where the truffle are." [Turner] All right, well I'm sure you're right. [Albee laughs] [Announcer] "In The Life," is funded in part by, [Announcer] the H. van Ameringen Foundation. [Announcer] Arcus Foundation. [Announcer] The Estate of Richard W. Weiland. [Announcer] And by the annual support of, "In The Life," members like you. [Theme music] [Theme music]