HOSTAGE NEGOTIATION FOR POLICE PART 2

[Music] thank you mrs peterson for letting us choose your home as our command post in this situation i want you to think about this fellow lambert down the street if you can think of anything else that might help us about him please get back to me right away okay yes sir i will okay thanks a lot what do you got now i'm telling the way back thank you i stopped the mail and i spoke to me on the delivery to lambert's house he told me a couple things about land but number one he said that he's getting uh some subscriptions from a gun magazine but more importantly uh he is uh getting some correspondence of mail from a doctor one of the local hospitals he doesn't recall a doctor's name when he's not sure of the hospital but he's gonna go back to the post office he's gonna check it for me i have his name on his phone i'm going to call him at the poster definitely stay right on top of that no that's important hold on just a second that's important we want to talk to him at doctor yeah i have a neighbor outside and she tells me she thinks the negotiator wants the offender to feel that he cares about the offender's idea of what's gone wrong and what he's upset about he doesn't just pretend to listen to the man's reasons for his behavior he really does try to understand and accept his reasons the way you would with a friend hello mr lambert hello mr lambert hi this is tom dimarco again did you ever uh read the bible mister yes i have yeah i was just reading something here did you ever read that though uh the lord is my shepherd and not so i don't even want to read the bible i don't want nothing i don't want to go through any of that stuff mr lambert what what's happened here why uh everything's happened the whole world has come to an end the whole thing has gone to everything nothing nothing is right everything is wrong when he speaks you keep the conversation going with a voice which is softer and slower than his it's a dead end that's all there is just a dead end i don't think so that's why i'm here what's your first name mr lambert negotiators often don't appear to pay attention to the hostages to an unbalanced suspect it would appear the negotiator cares more about the hostages than him you know airplanes fly over and fight start you know well two heads are always better than one mr lambert and maybe if we kick this thing around talked about it a little bit maybe i can help you because that's why i'm here oh and well how the hell can you help me i don't know where you can help me you're a cop right now what the hell is a [ __ ] gonna do other than lock me up he doesn't pass judgment on what the offender has done i'm here to try and help you i know something has gone wrong upstairs there do you have someone up there with you are you all right yeah i busted the place up damn it i i feel like killing myself i feel like it should end to hell my life is useless well why would you want to do that why do you feel that no you know she's gone on me oh joey joey jelly is gone she she's left is that your wife joan no hell you know who told me this is a picture up here that's my little the negotiator doesn't confront him after he lies or when his thinking is irrational the front page of the paper jam and gave us that guy you gave joni to a guy he took it to california i killed a year i killed her i gave it to this guy and i killed her damn it i killed her i did [Applause] how did that happen i haven't seen the paper today roger maybe if you could tell it to me i haven't seen the paper and you're supportive when the man is rational and makes a positive statement knew about it yeah i'm the last one to know everything every the whole the whole house every everything my whole life i've always been the last one where to go to california oh i see this is your son-in-law roger geez he took her away and you don't get angry if it seems you aren't getting anywhere listen i gotta go to the bathroom like i can't i can't talk anymore right i have to go i realize you have to go to the bathroom supposing what time do you have now wait a minute 2 30. it's 2 30 now i'd like to call you back in 15 minutes would you pick up the phone and talk to me again when i call you back the negotiator continues to do things which reinforce his credibility and keep the suspect thinking this gradually creates trust where we may come to a reasonable conclusion roger tom demarco yeah it's 2 45 i promised you i'd call you back and it's 2 45 roger where's all those 400 cops out there that want to kill me there are no cops out here that want to kill you roger i'm out here and i want to help you nobody can help me it's a lot of bologna you can't you can't do that too late it's not too late roger i read the article that you told me about i read about the belmonts is that joan and is that what you were trying to tell me before yeah just see it see what he did he killed her i killed it too i gave it to him took her out to california do you tighten the heat up in this place damn it's hot my god i'm broiling in here are you okay up there yeah we're okay we're all right we're all right everything everything is all right just leave us field just leave this video everything is cool roger who's up there with you we're here we're here just never mind we're we're here did uh geez i should have bought some strawberries today it's only like strawberries do you ever eat strawberries i certainly did yeah she liked them with cream sugar she used to get the big can of whipped cream and she used to put the whipped cream all over the top and she'd eat awful whipped cream first and then she'd eat the strawberry listen listen where are you [Applause] you have movement in the north window you have a male white black shirt it's worth remembering that maintaining fire discipline unless commanded otherwise is as important to the negotiation as maintaining invisible deployment as time goes on the suspect will consume his energy and experience varying degrees of discomfort and feelings of isolation hey man give me a television in here will you what do you want with a tv i'm getting bored in this damn place nothing else they're doing here why do you keep asking for things i don't have tvs just don't sit around here i might be able to work something out with a radio for you you said that with the car with the plane let's get the tv in here and the sandwiches come on now do something listen i got the food right here i'll stick a radio right in the box with it if you let that clerk out of there why should i let the clerk go well you haven't given me anything yet what do you give me listen a guy's got a bad heart just asking hey you got a bad heart man hey yeah he says he got a bad heart you want the radio yeah okay i'll take the radio but get the sandwiches too we're starving in here they're on our way don just get that guy ready to come out and get him yeah how do you want him we're gonna have him come out the front door pick up the box take it back inside and you let him out let him come right on out walk to the right keep walking you'll have my word you'll get a radio with batteries it'll work [Applause] don't shoot don't shoot on the manager god don't shoot when the need for the radio became greater than their need for the hostage with the bad heart you saw another negotiation principle work for you the suspect's priorities often change use that principle to your advantage don't shoot please [Applause] perhaps you could make some suggestions to us doctor as to the subject matter that we should stay away from or possibly subjects that we can utilize during our negotiations with this person i would suggest to you that you stay away from talking anything about his daughter he has a fixation about her and i would suggest that you uh try to show him some level of friendliness and try not to be too aggressive toward him i haven't seen mr lambert for the last three months but i can tell you that he has suicidal tendencies outside of that i would rather not have too much to do with this well i appreciate this doctor thank you very much if we need you again we'll uh call you thank you you're welcome we've got our problems with this guy tom figures he's in batman [Music] [Applause] damn all right i got my shirt off now i don't believe you stand up so i can see you all right let me just see your hands i see that gun negotiator is also being sized up by the suspect and if he gets even the slightest hint of deception or trickery negotiations are over and he'll be more dangerous than ever of course trust doesn't come easy i don't care what you're doing please put that gun down before somebody gets hurt we don't want to hurt anything please put the gun down please all along the negotiator wants the offender to see him as a neutral party as a middleman the negotiator is not authorized to make all the decisions alone if the suspect thinks you're the top man in the department he'll believe you can make all the decisions right now all right give me a minute look do me a favor i'll get you a cigarette just like you asked but how about getting that gun out of the car oh no i want a bigger red come on how about getting a gun out i'll give you a cigarette and of course for every demand made you try to get the suspect to give up something in return sometimes it works just throw it out the window i promise i'll give you a cigarette if you throw it out the window all right all right it's out it's out okay i'll get you a cigarette just give me a minute your experience tells you of course that the suspect may have another gun that's why you maintain your cover and avoid any action which could also endanger the hostages safety besides you got a cigarette for this guy okay mr johns the cigarette's coming off just like i promised there it is years of overwhelming stress or self-guilt or whatever led him to this point can distort perceptions of reality for someone as sick as this [Music] the suspect may not even know exactly where he is because his mind often lives in the past and the present at the same time and while all of this is going on if it's you who has to stand out in the cold all you want is to get this thing over with or to see what is happening outside your view the crowd gets bored they want action so it's easy to see why some departments eventually decide to stop humoring the suspect and in they go usually with these results they shoot the suspect or he shoots himself or he shoots the hostage or even worse the police shoot the hostage roger this is tom demarco again you know i don't know do you believe i got another gun i believe you have a gun roger but where there is a choice of action there's no question that taking your time is better than taking a life roger there's no need for that i think i understand the solution to what this situation is all about listen to me trust me for a minute and listen to me [Music] and about now you also find out if the press are still reporting the incident accurately it's 53 degrees at 10 o'clock i'm in grilli with wgbb news in weather the lead story at this hour two gunmen are now holding hostages at a bank on the south shore of long island according to police the european american bank was held up at about one o'clock today by a pair of gunmen at this hour the suspects have barricaded themselves at an adjacent store alexander's men's and boys wear and police have now roped off the surrounding area there was an exchange of gunfire reported between police and the gunman but no injuries were reported the number of hostages is still unknown and it's also believed that none of the hostages have been injured as of yet wgbb will bring you further details of this late-breaking story as it develops in other news the death toll in that amsterdam how's your thought of dawn she's all right i'm not gonna hurt i'm something to eat lori would you please just a child after her the chinese how about letting her out no no no no i'm not letting her out come on the officer is right there let it go at the officer often the hostage can't wait to escape after release by the suspect sometimes negotiations break down and suspects try to escape with the hostages which only means you better have contingency plans to track them wherever they go sometimes the hostages escape on their own that's wgvb news our next report sometimes the hostages don't want to escape after spending hours in a close setting with an offender hostages establish contact with their captors and often begin to identify with their goals this transference phenomenon can sometimes make the surrender process dangerous and unpredictable inside the barricade a hostage's biggest fear is often the feeling that the police are going to assault at any time [Music] for the suspect his concern about police assault may not be as great at this point [Music] if he is afraid of being shot down it takes time to lose that fear so you work on transferring his fear to making decisions hostages can provide unreliable information because the hostage takers threat can be so overpowering that even in the post-release period the threat is still present seven hostages yes they threaten to kill all of them if you don't do something give them what they want well people at an advantage point across the street don't see that many people in that store are you sure there's seven people in there come on now mr leonard you don't have to worry you're out of the store now those people are desperate they'll kill those people out there they won't kill them we'll take care of them don't worry about that but we have to know how many people are in there tired [Applause] just calm down relax now tell me how many people are in the store they saw your your snipers the men with rifles on the buildings across the street they know you're trying to kill them they're not going to let those people go we're not going to kill anybody if we can avoid it but our snipers across the street don't count as many people as you say they're in that store come on tell me how many are in there there's two people about 85 of the time this is the ending when all officers involved decide to take the time to do it right the hostages are freed first then the suspect surrenders but to get to this point often requires real flexibility on the part of the negotiator for example this man was allowed to come out without handcuffs to see his girlfriend the negotiators evaluation told him it would work with this suspect this offender felt it was important to hand over the hostage himself the negotiator knew that every hostage taker feels a need to surrender with dignity an offender knows the press is there too and the negotiator knows he just might have to deal with this man again if you vent your frustrations or hold him up like a trophy good luck getting him to surrender next time i'll tell you what we've had it bob and i and uh we'll give up but i only want to give up to you and it's even easier if the negotiator has been able to build some kind of lasting rapport we'll see in a couple minutes you tell us how you want us to come out and uh we'll come out we've had it okay let the hostages come out first one at a time the hands in the air let them come out to the sidewalk make a right turn and walk away then you two guys come out one at a time leave the guns inside come out with your hands in the air and come out slow i'll come out and meet you i'm wearing a light blue jacket okay babe where's that man hey bob we're gonna go bob that's it we give up huh right walk through the side looking at the right side get from the front of the story all right you inside the sword come through the jaw with your hands over your head keep them up to the sidewalk with your hands where's that guy i was talking to put your hand in the air right here do you see brought to the driveway the longer the negotiator communicates the harder it becomes for the suspects to maintain their determination and the easier it becomes for them to accept the negotiators offer of safety in return for the hostages their problem was that they could not see many solutions to their situation except the one presented by the negotiator what about the hostages afterwards this is a time of strong and confused feelings you can tell it in the way they come out crying laughing or maybe no apparent reaction at all and yet to be taken hostage can be an incredibly traumatic experience you show the same compassion you would want if you were in this situation [Applause] mr chance it's all over all right it's all over like i promise you here the negotiator allowed the suspect to go to the station with the officers in his own car of course a thorough vehicle search is made before entering i read the article i see what happened with that son-in-law of yours and i also see there's some children involved here in this case no one knows for sure if there is a hostage or what the suspect will do next the point is to realize the importance of your job in these incidents you may be in a situation to decide if intervention is the best course of action and if you're on the outer perimeter you have to continue to re-evaluate conditions as well because you know what could happen if that outer perimeter ever moved to the inner perimeter of course you won't be able to control all the things that are happening around you but you can control your own actions and to the degree to which you can do that the closer everyone will come to reaching a positive outcome [Music] trust me this is the answer this is the answer for you and for those kids on that subject not back yet have crossbows on the other two subjects standby for further information church