Group Problem Solving (1968)

[Music] these men are in conference a group problem solving process that has its origin in the dawn of civilization when tribal leaders gathered together to discuss ways of providing for the rest of the village group discussion is a process of sharing ideas or solving problems together in an organized way I have to stress organization because without it group discussion can turn into a verbal freefor [Music] all respons this group lacks a Cooperative attitude and cooperation is necessary for a successful group discussion create a congenial atmosphere get comfortable chairs and sit in a circle this allows the participants to converse easily if the discussion is taking place before an audience a semicircular Arrangement is helpful avoid having members sitting in profile it's important for the audience to see their faces the chairman opens the discussion by carefully phrasing the question to be discussed simply clearly and impartially the topic we're going to discuss today is whether or not the past fail system has more advantages for the student than the present numerical marking system um to make sure that everyone understands what we're talking about I'd like to ask for definitions of the past fail system in the marking system Richard um the P fail system is a system where the uh the student is graded on a pass fail standard and the uh and he gets one of those two marks the members Define their terms avoiding dictionary like definitions the numerical marking system is where you get a grade from 0 to 100 65 being the minimal passing grade and then your degrees of achievement are measured from 65 up the chairman summarizes their statements and arranges them into workable definitions okay so I guess we can say that the past fail system is determined really by the teacher where the student doesn't have any specific idea of where about where he stands just that he passed or he failed whereas the numerical marking system is very specific and it tells you exactly how you're doing percentage wise they next discuss the history of the problem this requires careful judgment the panel must select only those aspects of the past history that are vital the method of organization was called the flexible progress plan generally speaking for a few scattered efforts the non-graded school has been in existence only since the end of World War II under the new year college plan a 5-year experiment that will begin in January teachers will choose four designations for their students fail Pass High Pass and honors the point is that whether a man gets a 72 or a 74 just doesn't reflect his performance his knowledge or anything really Robert Carbone came to a less favor favorable conclusion in his research on non-ring he tested 122 matched pairs of pupils in grades four five and six from four school systems two with a non-graded primary and two without he found that the graded pupils tested High in six areas of achievement vocabulary reading language work study skills arithmetic and total achievement this discussion is getting off to a good start all are actively participating and conversation proceeds easily the study indicated that students were almost forced to work for a grade and this often led to emotional distress that could be a deterent to real learning the report concluded that it was high time to throw out these out oted methods the group Next turns its attention to the present evidences of the problem they must decide whether the question is serious enough to Warrant discussion what I'd like to discuss now is how this problem has affected everybody here well in my case I feel that um if I have a test and I haven't learned it learn the work in class I have to cram the night before and it becomes almost a point of memorizing it's not even you know was just memorizing so that after the test I don't I realize that I didn't learn anything because learning for me I know that I have to has to be a slow process like building up day by day by day and if I if I was absent or if I just wasn't interested or tired during that week and I didn't get you know if I didn't really learn this cramming is necessary and it's really bad I also find myself cramming right before a test uh just so I can get you know let's say an 85 or a 95 and once I get that Mark when I get the paper back I go over the work to see just you know how I answered and which questions I got right or wrong and I find myself not knowing as much as I should know if I got a 95 you know I don't think that the P fail system is an alternative it it's not going to uh it it will maybe uh help the cramming problem a little bit but because now all you have to do is pass the test instead of being forced to get a 90 on it but I I feel that there should be a change I have found I found in my work that uh having having to study all the time just to get a high Mark has been a real problem when I the chairman again summarizes the statements of the panel members this keeps the discussion moving in a logical sequence so far it seems that the problem is not so much that uh whether or not you should have a p fail system it's the fact that everybody seems to be cramming before a test there have been reports by the way that there were ill effects on cramming but I'd like to ask now uh is the P fail system a remedy for cramming do you think that that's the case the panel now discusses the cause of the problem is the past fail system a remedy for cramming well uh I I think it might be you know let's see if if the if the kids don't feel that they have to set a Mark or or like let's say be jewels in the class and and if you remove the concept of competition from the class work no I think competition is definitely necessary it really is you need something to go you on to make you you know want to learn I don't think if you're just said you know well you you don't have to study too much cuz you'll just get a pass or a fail Mark that that's not not enough you need more than that well then again that depends on the individual in your case oh well everything depends on the individual well well then yeah but I'm just saying in my case we're talking about personal personal things now in my case um compet comption does inspire me to a certain extent but I think if I look at competition and if I look at Freedom I think that the freedom would I think I'd be more inspired with this in Freedom behind me more than with just competition because competition right away is such an unhealthy atmosphere I'm going to ask is competition healthy and do you think it has anything to do with education observe how the chairman keeps the discussion moving by summarizing clarifying points rephrasing any ambiguous statements made by panel members and asking pertinent questions his job is important but even more important is a Cooperative well-informed panel you feel the change is necessary is that important if it is that important then I don't see that why they shouldn't try it well not too much change the basic school system itself won't change you know like you're still going to have your own personal records it'll still be marked down like is this person a good student is he not a good student it's just will it uh eliminate the cramming problem will like will the students really be graded on their knowledge if you know the work if you've been doing all your work and and you've been studying weeks beforehand you won't have to cram so cramming isn't something that's going to be solved by a pass fail system I has a point there I'm sorry if an argument begins it's the Chairman's responsibility to end the dispute and keep the discussion moving system will not do anything to relieve the cramming problem itself it really depends on the individual the panel continues to to exchange ideas and evaluate opinions they avoid arguments by using tact and courtesy there will always be competition and there should always be competition well I that would competition shouldn't be at such a high rate I mean when you're competing for numbers just to get you know like I have to get a higher Mark than she does it it's happens all the time in school we see it every day I see it in every class I go to well uh you know one person will say uh she's really not a small girl she only studies you know and she's she's getting a high Mark and I'm naturally smart so I should you know obviously get a higher Mark than she does they're always competing you know so much that it's really unhealthy but I feel competition is necessary in anything you do the discussion now progresses to its most important phase the solution of the problem many groups find that they cannot as yet agree upon a solution but may be able to eliminate major differences further research and discussion May ultimately lead to a mutually agreeable solution I think we've reached the point where we all agree basically on one thing that changing the system would have a great effect on how the student would work do you all agree on that okay now the problem is is what attitude do you think uh the student will take towards his work and this is also a very you know controversial subject so we won't bother going over that again but I would like to say one thing are there any solutions or there any ways you could think of that we could put the new past fail fa system into effect or would it you know pay it all for us to do so well I'm for the uh past fail system and I think it would create a more relaxed and conial atmosphere for the students to learn in but I think the only way we can find out is by experimenting with her on a larger scale than what we've experimented the reports we uh talked about today maybe like a whole state should uh try the past fail system versus the numerical system and see what happens among the students I agree with Jim's uh proposal of trying to do this on a large scale this way it would almost be a test and it would be good to really prove if the system would would be would work well my own opinion I'd love to see it go through because um knowing myself and my own work attitudes I think this Freedom would be just so new and so wonderful that I think I'd have such a more greater desire to learn but it shouldn't stop there we just couldn't have pass or fail it has to we have to um change the system the present system a great deal it it would have to go into entrance exams and colleges you know we just couldn't end it with high schools cuz it wouldn't fit just wouldn't gel with the rest of the you know rest of the system as it is now this is often the longest phase of the group discussion process each solution must be evaluated is it practical to put such a solution into effect if we do have the pass fail system I don't think it'll be just enough to have the marks pass pass and fail we'll need a mark for the superior student who really wants to be recognized so I think we should have a pass fail and outstanding let's say in honors so that way everyone is recognized when they finally reach an agreement the chairman with the aid of the panel summarizes the most important aspects of the solution so far the solutions that have been discussed is that we should uh test the past fail system Statewide also that by testing it also include the fact that the students would have a chance to prove whether they're outstanding or honor students besides passing or failing the course uh I suggest that we form a committee this group has the power to put their solution into action they will select several individuals or a committee to put the plan into effect and if necessary provide the committee with funds group discussion plays a vital role in our society today the daily operation of business education and government are directed by groups of people meeting as committees boards and councils we can all take an active part in society by learning to observe facts formulate opinions and exchange ideas freely within the framework of one of civilized men's most effective social tools group discussion [Music]