Golden Days Of Flight

[Music] [Music] hello I'm Jim Burnett and I am your host for the next several weeks our series is the airplane and NASA will trace how NASA building on the previous work of NACA the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics has played an important role in the field of Aeronautics in this our first show a prominent figure in the world of aviation Paul Garber shares some of his experiences with us he takes us back to the very first days of powered flight and he gives valuable insight into the growth of airplane technology in later programs we pick up the NASA aeronautical story in the 60s and move chronologically from then towards the president now let's pick up the Garber interview as he talks about the films he's made on the history of flight I started off with natural flight because flight began was nature 250 million years ago with the first bug that flew the mega Nora 250 million years ago and then after natural flight came imaginative flight that's the next one man's journeys to fly as shown his imagination where he couldn't make the thing but he could think about it it's quite significant that he thought that angels could fly and that the gods could fly because he thought the gods could do anything like mercury or Hermes the messenger of the gods that rings little things on his feet and on his helmet not very powerful women loading but was an idea quite important in man that I had everything starts with a good idea so the imaginative flight that's with the religion fantasy fiction poetry art and the kite the boomerang then da Vinci [Music] then the balloon which was the first lift man into the air that was November 21 1783 the Montgolfier in France Paris and then airships which are powered balloons and then the beginnings of heavier-than-air craft going back to Hanoi and Bienvenue 1784 but the first thing that ever raised herself by its own self-contained power first up beyond the kite [Music] a kite is far more than a toy it can be a very interesting lesson in basic aerodynamics it can show you things about center of thrust center of gravity and the center of the the pressure and it can tell you things about dihedral for lateral stability and of keel service for longitudinal stability it's a very good teaching device I saw it in a newspaper where or the light was flying at Fort Myer this picture of the airplane and the statement about the flight my asked my father if I could have car fare to go to Fort Myer the next day he gave me 50 cents or whatever it was the next morning or next afternoon it was because it said the flying was late in the afternoon when the wind had died down so I went over to Fort Myer remember the catotti line was quite a distance away from the fort but I ran a hold of way and as I came to the fort went through the gate I could hear this sound and as I passed the first short block and then came out where the huge field was where they had the artillery and cavalry exercises here looking down I saw the southeast sort of this noise and it was this airplane I never before seen an air passing pictures of them but here was this enormous thing this great big kite with two men in it and the propellers turning over and the engine sound and coming tortoise and as I looked at it and he packed like fat and fell down flat but continued to look at it and then got up and watched it as it flew around and around and around the field going this way ever and then finally came into a landing now that memory has been enhanced by later knowledge so that I know now that it was on the 27th of July 1990 cuz that was a day of the narration of light then the Sirius was a day of the distance flight that was the first round-trip flight in America when Orville Wright flew from Fort Myer to Alexandria around suiters here long back again ten miles in all yes that remains to my mind as well I can look right through a 747 and see the Wright Flyer and then I was further astonished when I saw the airplane again in the Smithsonian where they've been placed in 1911 so many times I would go there just to see that airplane once more one day when I was again visiting the Smithsonian I saw a one top of a case this rather large scale model of a Chanute glider I've learned later that octave Chanute himself had given it to the Smithsonian following its use in a display in nineteen six that was the first hair show in America so there it was and I got permission to go up on a ladder where a man was cleaning the case and look at it more closely and see how it was made and get an idea about his dimensions and went on home and made a copy of it it's about yay span and about yay cord and had a extended boom arrangement with a quatrefoil tail on it I made a copy of it my mother helped me to tack the cloth on she had what was called chintz in those days today they call it polished cotton she had a whole Bordeaux red chintz and we covered it with that and then I went out in the backyard and assembled it and then my model airplane Club friends got together we drifted over the fence on up the hill to a place called the Red Lodge it was just red gravel a lot of this red clay and three big trees at the back end of it we chose a windy day and I got in this glider or on it or under it had my arms over the larger ons and my hands grasping the two struts here and we had two lines going out from it with my friends on each line and a good wind and then I hollered to them to pull and I began running with this thing and sure enough I began to rise and they were so surprised to see me rise they stopped running to look and of course we stood back on the gliders tailed and my tail and took a couple of weeks for repairs to both of us but then we went again to the same location and they kept running that time they ran to the end of the field then down this rather steep at the far end of it and then I glided above them and then over this lower section and across the trees and landed in the field on the far side and today when I'm in that area I tell my friends I flew over those trees the trees are way up there now down here ah but I mean about a dozen nuclides in this thing and then one of the other folks wanted to try it he cracked it up but that's the first time I was airborne 19:15 airmail had begun at the Polo Grounds in Washington on May 15 1918 that is as a continuously scheduled public service between fixed stations the man airmail before that with the carrier pigeons and balloons and the pioneers of flight but the first time that it became a public service starting but we now have today was this route between Washington and New York and the army began it on May 15th and turned it over to the post office on August 12th and I signed up when I got my discharge on December 14th honorable discharge that is and then that was signed in on the 17th which has happened to be the 15th anniversary of the Wright brothers first flight and I was a College Park at this big field there and I was by no means a a Rouge pilot I have such admiration with those who were I wouldn't dilute them by myself but I've learned to fly at that time because many of those pilots had been instructors and they gave me some stick time once in a while and I soared on the 4th of July the holiday of 1919 saw it in the Curtiss Jenny and I helped with the mail I was very proud that to do my part I'd do anything they called me chief slave and I'd do anything I got gas up the ships or check the the tool bag and taxi out the airplane that is run alongside of it or grab it as I came in after older wing mechanics work worked on the engines on the airframes I was handing you know Paul you've been at the Smithsonian Institution since 1920 when you first joined the Smithsonian what were some of your first duties I've had called prepare a tour that means one who prepares things for display and my job was to repair things that had broken and there were many things in fact that's how I got the idea that I might work there I've been in the airmail service prior to that but then looking for another position after I left the airmail reluctantly because they were moving to Chicago and I was to be based in Washington my father was not will ask me to stay in this area but many at Smithsonian there were many things were broken so wanting another job and and loving that institution as I always have I asked if a permission if a job might be available and I met with a reed who had been languished heat mechanic on his large a year ago and on the small ear films also as a Langley was the secretary of the Smithsonian that means the head and the Langley aerodrome unmanned of 1896 was the world's first-ever heavier-than-air craft to be mechanically powered and to fly unmanned later on the manned aircraft did not fly but the unmanned one did so Luther Reid was like mushy fanatic and he was still living when I used to go there just to see the museum I came to meet him he loved clocks also I tried to get there around 12 o'clock when all the clocks were striking and I take him some ice cream so he died in March I got his job in June June 1 1920 and my duties were to repair things a preparator I'd repair anything but then my interest was in Aeronautics and whenever I could finish one job and had nothing assigned to me I'd work on something at an article so this was a three month appointment and it began to run out and the boss was away on vacation so finishing everything that I've been told to do up to the time when I when my last day aboard had arrived I then continued to work there but making this model of Leonardo da Vinci's manual ornithopter that's a wing flapper [Music] dr. Mardis from bird and softer from wing bird link job and the on earth event she was my hero I'd always admired the man had the greatest mind I think it's ever existed and he was interested in inflate well da Vinci marks the separation between the crazy ideas like two bottles that were they thought it was a magic to rise and harnessing birds when human power was applied in a sensible manner to operating an aircraft and I've learned more about this from the library at the Smithsonian and then made this model just on my own because I wanted to have something there of my own that I had made just to show my grandchildren when I came there in later years but the secretary who was then dr. Wolcott in fact Wolcott was really the founder of what you are here he was the founder of NACA which is now na sa dr. Wolcott saw this model admired it and gave me an extension which has lasted for 61 and some months years and so I was I was a model maker I was a model repairer I do anything that had to be done to maintain the collection but then when I helped to get the spirit of st. Louis that brought so much attention to the aeronautical collections of the museum that it was just started to have a section of aeronautics I was put in charge of it so we are 61 years Paul no doubt you've met and talked with many famous aviators I'm gonna mention a few memes and maybe if you could just kind of highlight what you remember about each one Charles Lindbergh I don't other than as a pair male pilot because I've been in the Air Medal myself and I'd known of him with his service on this Chicago st. Louis route because he was a very fine pilot and he loved him through mutual friends and then I came to know him after he had agreed to give the airplane to us I met him in Memphis when he was on his circuit tour of the United States I met he when he came to the museum to discuss it of course on Betty when he brought it to us on April 30 1928 and many many visits at the news in many times yes I do him quite well he always called me by my first name most of all I forget to call him Jim what about Orville Wright he came to the museum in 1923 he wanted to see the Langley aerodrome and consider it aerodynamically and also to see whether it had been repaired as it in its original condition of course the Langley airfield the largely was tested twice October 7th and December 8th of 1903 either time to the fly the first time the front kingpost caught on the launching gear and pulled the wing down this way with a negative angle of incidence just went into the water second time the rear guy broke to the stabilizer the aircraft went up like this on his back and again in the water we don't know but the third eye was never tested again until it was tested after it had been repaired and modified by Glenn Curtis and over right objected to the belief that the flight in 1914 proved that it might have flown in 19 3 and he wanted to see the airplane again to remind himself about his details I met him then and I showed him a display I'd made because the the 20th anniversary of the Kitty Hawk flight of 1903 was coming up again I made this just grabbing a scale model about yay big of the Kitty Hawk flyer I had photographs of himself and his brother I had an example of the Langley medal was given to him and his brother in nineteen eight early recognition of them they've been the first in America and then I had some other photographs of their of their gliders and wind tunnel so I showed that Orville Wright and he was rather pleased to see it and then he made a few comments of additional items that I needed I asked him for things that I knew I wanted he was very gracious and gave me a number of photographs for it made some suggested about the model and that started a present relationship what about Glenn Curtiss of course I knew of him from the very early days but in 1925 I was at the Air Races in New York City on Long Island and he was there with the Kurdish racers which were a beautiful aircraft and the Curtiss r3c 2 was being flown by shot by side Bettis and with Jenna guru as alternate pilot I remember and then al Williams was flying a similar airplane Saipan is one that year but as a contrast between the then-current Kurtis racers and the Kurtis aircraft of the early days there was a Kurtis pressure which was filmed by Britta Costa and then as it came back and was put up here on the line Glenn Curtis sedative after his photograph was taken I walked up introduce myself said I was from the museum I said would you consider giving us airplane to the Smithsonian Larry said I hadn't thought of that well I said you're going through something with it and if keep on flying it you're busted up how about giving it to us he called a Frank Russell who was standing by he says Frank Paul Garber wants this airplane for his Museum in Washington and Franklin says that's a good idea what about Wiley Post yes the course everybody knew him the wonderful flyer that he is with only one eye and a magnificent example of 42 determinations but of the handicapped wonderful example I go sometimes to see my dear daughter who'd become an invalid as I see these persons there in this hospital I wish for something that would cause them to somehow try to overcome their handicap but while he post is a magnificent example of one who was handicapped by the loss of an eye but he overcame that one can as I found out one time when I had an eye injury one can't regain somewhat perspective I suspect your two eyes give you of course to some extent you get back a relationship of how far things are but he was able to fly an airplane and to land it fly under the most difficult conditions yes I know him but I knew him because of who he was and I asked him for the win he made one time over the Hoover field where he says I'm still using it well I said there come a time when you'll be turning it in on something else and like to have it for the news in meanwhile I have offered other luck in Vegas like Wilkins or the one who's being flown by Stan Avila but I kept on after the winning a a while he approached we finally got it and I would never have wished to have it the way we did that was after his death and then mrs. post was gracious to give it to us with a special arrangement by Josh Lee of Oklahoma then in Congress [Music] another character out of the past is Roscoe Turner with his lion Gilmore I [Music] think I met him first when I was anxious to illustrate the beginnings of commercial aviation in the world aviation that is of course era stashin was the first commercial that's lighter than air but aviation commercially began in Florida in January 1 1914 with a benoit flying boat flown by my good friend Tony Janice who graduated from tech high school that I did not when I did I was some years after he but he learned to fly at College Park where I did and then went with Benoit that's B e nois T Tom been well used to call his factory they've been oyster II because persons call him Benoist but it was a been optimal flying boat from Batory Janice that was the world's first ever commercial that was up for about three months between st. Petersburg and Tampa which was across the hoop with his narrow bridge in those days those eight miles were spanned by air and I wanted to represent it in the museum I hope to make a scale model of that flying vote and then when I was given the model by the one who sponsored it then Roscoe Tara was in the group what about Amelia Earhart I saw her twice I was at must on the field at Philadelphia that's the Navy field up there when she came in had a flat tire and I helped a little bit to get it repaired some great rubbish to roll with that flat tire away and bring it back fixed up a very gracious lady and then I saw her one time at the White House when many famous four pilots were being received at the president about Howard Hughes when he made his marvelous flight in 1935 establishing a new transcontinental record I wrote to him for his airplane and he was reluctant to give it to us and this being a place to put it on display at that time we had no space for it he said he would keep it until we didn't have a space for it and one day after the war at World War two he was walking toward me up Pennsylvania Avenue and I recognized him and I turn and got his step with him introduce myself I said I'm the one that asked you for that airplane of yours when do we get it so you'll get it when you have a place to show it of course we do have a place to show it now it's beautiful I think it's the most beautiful airplane we have it's just as smooth as a baby's cheek the lovely streamlining and craftsmanship on it he says in fact I might fly it there because I still gets faster than these jet jobs cause he never did what about Lincoln Ellsworth he made Arctic and Antarctic flights he was with Amundsen in the Norge that was the Italian airship went over the North Pole and then he became interested in Antarctic flying and obtained a beautiful airplane was one of the very first to be skin stressed the north of gamma I wanted that technically because of its characteristics and historically because of his flights in it I asked him for that he said yes but it'll still be my airplane because I still want to fly it and he says keep it in good shape for me so I would I put the prop through every now and then I check the battery it was still flyable to today I'm so impressed with what has been when I think that when I was nine years old I saw over white fly when I was 69 years old I saw a man step on the moon by television make it all the more wonderful and the marvelous things you've done here in NASA were just shuttle and the other tremendous exploits of going to the moon that is the future and you can tell that better than I I can't predict the future I'm too astounded at the past that's my job I'm supposed to be historian emeritus of the National Space Museum I don't think there's anyone and in the world that can say hi flight like you can mm-hmm would you be willing to say it for us I wish McGee were here to say it he's the one who ruled it he was the victim of it but they running into another airplane of World War two crashed oh I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth and danced the skies on laughter silvered wings summer not climbed and joined the tumbling birth of sun spit clouds and done a hundred things you had not dreamed Oh wheeled and soared and swung high on the summit heavens hovering there I chased the feeding clouds along and from my affair through footless halls of their the hider various burning blue topped the snow clad Heights with easy grace where never lark or even eagle flew and while the silent lifting mind I've trod the high untrust percentages of space put out my hand and touched the face of God Paul Garber has the unique distinction of having lived through much of a century that saw great advancements in aeronautical technology he has seen Orville Wright fly during the earliest days of the airplane and he has seen Neil Armstrong walk on the moon in the time separating those two legendary events the United States has been steadily advancing the field of Aeronautics in 1958 we witnessed the birth of NASA in the 1960s NASA comes of age however before we concentrate on that period of time we look at some of the developments and people responsible for the progress made in aircraft performance this is the subject of next week's show America's wings till then I'm Jim Burnett [Music]