Get Used to It: Ep. 1, "Election '92"

e [Applause] [Music] hello welcome to get used to it a new monthly program produced by the city of West Hollywood examining critical issues affecting America's gay and lesbian Community my name is Sheila CLE and I'll be your host each month as we explore the challenges and issues that face lesbian and gay Americans on a daily basis we decided our first show actually history in the making given the when it's uh being brought to you should focus on the upcoming election you would have had to be on Mars not to notice how gay and lesbian civil rights have been used by both sides in the presidential race for diametric diametrically different reasons this election will affect the lives of each and every lesbian and gay person and we're going to try to explore today and depth just what's at stake our guests today are David mixner a prominent political consultant currently a member of Democratic presidential candidate Bill Clinton's National steering committee one of our community's sharpest political Minds who successfully won the battles against the Briggs initiative prop 6 and the larouche initiative prop 64 welcome David really glad to have you here thank you actually we have three of our community's most brilliant political Minds here's number two Tori Osborne who's been active for the past 20 years in both the women's movement and the lesbian and gay movement she's currently executive director of the gay and lesbian Community Services Center here in Los Angeles but she announced that she's going to be stepping down in October and was recently named the new executive director of the national gay and lesbian task force welcome Tori thanks we're going to miss you when you move to Washington glad you're here today finally my third brilliant guest Charles Stewart currently Chief Deputy for state Senator Diane Watson Charles served as a member of Jesse Jackson's National steering committee for his 1988 presidential bid he's a contributing editor for BLK magazine the nation's leading African-American gay and lesbian publication he's a member of both the southern Christian leadership conference and the NAACP welcome Charles thank you well here we are we're going to talk about the election um I guess the first question that viewers will have and certainly the first question I want to pose to you is why is this election important to us David you're working in Clinton's campaign and you must think it's important to us in some way what do you think I I actually think it's historic I think it's the most important election in the history of our community uh everything's at stake it's like we have the Prince of Darkness and the prince of light on side on one side uh we have a person who will practice and continue to practice repression do little on AIDS uh Point more Clarence Thomases to the Supreme Court uh take away a woman's right to choose uh uh and on the other side we have a candidate who is committed to uh passing Progressive civil rights legislation and executive orders for gays and lesbians uh who will declare war on AIDS who will appoint distinguished people to the Supreme Court of this land and the federal courts other uh Federal Judiciary appointments and who will fight hard to protect wad versus Wade and the process and why '92 though I mean all does it doesn't seem like all of a sudden I mean even all of a sudden he's interested in us in a sense actually it's not all of a sudden and actually it's the work of the gay and lesbian community that has made it 92 uh this has been long in the making uh many people who are no longer here with us have had literally died for this cause uh what it means is that we has as a community has matured to degree that we are ready to sit at the table of power uh that we are politically sophisticated enough to determine our own destiny politically and we have historically met a candidate who is willing to pull back the chair and say have a seat uh that he understands our aspirations and our dreams and so it's a mutual historical Alliance uh it's it's one of those actually for this community very fortuitous events we're ready and he was ready and we came together in what I consider a very historical Alliance uh that will mean to never again will this community be the same politically so has it had an impact on the ways in which we're involved though yeah substantially I mean we are at uh you know usually historically up until through 1988 we got one position in a campaign and that was a lesbian and gay leaz on uh to the community and it was one person who always got that position and and we had to argue to get that now we're co-chairing Statewide campaigns we're on the national finance committee the national executive committee we have people doing events and scheduling and press uh and then uh and to see some of the young lesbian and gay men who are in the campaign learning all these new skills of how to do Advanced work how to do scheduling how to do press uh it's an extraordinary exciting it's an opportunity we've never been presented with before and we've seized it very dramatically and are taking advantage of it Charles there in working on the local level have you seen a difference in any difference that this campaign is making in our community well I think that that in terms of galvanizing people who are interested in um in being on a winning team I think that here to before we've been able to play a symbolic role we've been involved we've supported Democratic candidates in the past uh but we haven't been able to go with the candidate the distance now we're beginning to taste victory and I think that that's important and significant and it's something we've earned it's something we deserve and so now it's just making it to the end making sure that the candidate wins uh and that we are there to make to make it clear to everyone to remember ourselves and to and to remind the world that we're here we're not going anywhere so get us get used to it well the other thing is I it was clear I mean it was amazing to me at the Democratic Convention how much presence we had and we'll talk a little bit about that as we go through the show but have you seen any impact from that kind of positive stuff just at the at the local level both in the races I mean we're we have a lot of people running for office at the local level and a lot of none of our people necessarily uh yet made it through the you know into the finals but um just in terms of the way people are thinking about us in their own campaign I think people are motivated to to be involved politically this year I think that in in my own case U my boss Senator Watson is running for supervisor uh we have been we've worked very closely much more closely than ever before and that isn't because there hasn't been a mutual willingness but because people are now active they are participating at all levels and so we've gotten there's a much larger gain lesbian presence in our campaign open and that is true not merely in our campaign but in all campaigns in campaigns that affect urban areas in campaigns that affect Suburban areas in campaigns that affect the Latino Community all of our communities are finally beginning to realize that we all have a role to play uh self-defined roles and that we are going to play those roles we're going to to step up to the table and take our seat and participate so is there more acceptance of uh lesbian a gay people of color who are out in the various communities in which candidates are running well I'm out and um and and have been consistently and uh there are a number of people who have I think that it's that it's very important to realize for instance that immediately after the uprising here in Los Angeles last spring that it was uh Phil Wilson the mayor's uh AIDS Leone who is a black and an openly gay man and who is HIV positive uh LED the peaceful demonstration into SEI Valley so many people focused our attention understandably on the violence but there was also something that triggered that and that was the verdicts and it is very important that lesbian G and gay leadership of color stepped into the leadership position and caravanned us out there and I mean it was a it was it was a it was an exciting and and a somewhat frightening thing to do but it needed to happen and we were joined joined by a number of uh civil rights organizations traditional civil rights organizations who never before have shared a Podium with us and I don't know that they were necessarily ready to up until that moment until it happened but there they were there we were so what are the implications Tor I want since you're here obviously I mean here you are the national movement right or at least not yet the once in future executive director of the new of the task force uh in terms of how the movement or the movement's responsibility or how we're responding why is this important to us this year I mean we've kind of abjured electoral politics kind sometimes in the movement well this opens up a whole new day for the movement I me it completely reframes the issues of the future if if Bill Clinton gets into office within some amount of time we know he's going to sign a ban of discrimination in the military he's going to help pass the federal civil rights legislation I mean we have been working against a right-wing powerfully organized against us for the last 12 years against genocidal indifference and the Reagan Bush campaigns on AIDS to we've had to fight for every inch of the terrain and what what happens is a couple of things first of all a Clinton Victory sends out a green light from the top it puts leadership stamp on Tolerance on homophobia uh as unacceptable as a form of bigotry we always say homophobia has become sort of the last acceptable form of bigotry doesn't mean racism and sexism are dead but homophobia has been the last to fall and with leadership that that is you know explicitly pro- uh gay rights on certain issues what it does is it means we get to move forward on the issues that we have public support for discrimination uh the military and so forth but but more importantly it opens up for the 90s the political space for us to really move forward on domestic partnership and gay marriage on gay youth gay and lesbian youth issues teenage suicide you know three times the national average and so so what you you'll see is a totally changed terrain not only you see uh a queer voting block I mean it is conceivable that 85 to 90% of our community both Republicans and Democrats Democrats are going to vote as a block in this election the kind of money that's been raised uh in this campaign and the way that this campaign as as Charles and David was saying has really acted in our interest to Galvanize and mobilize our own Community thousands of unactive people have been brought in since the since the since the Democratic Convention which embraced us and the Republican convention which you know excor excoriated us you see people I mean I've been speaking at Gan lesbian Clinton House parties with people who have never voted before much less gone to a house party much less been active so what I'm saying is that you're seeing an unprecedent level of activity of mobilization of organization that will help build our movement in a very real sense the Clinton campaign is helping us build our movement and that can only help us provide the kind of of advocacy work and public opinion uh kind of you know movement framing of issues media activism and so forth as we go into the 90s on the tougher issues the gay marriage the youth issues the the parenting issues so I think part of what you're saying too or what I heard is there's a little more of a breathing space I mean we've had to fight for every half an inch of gain for everything wide open it will wide it will open wide you know wide up political train we haven't begun to walk on and you know the other thing we can't forget it's the real impact this has on people lives directly for 50 years now interesting enough in January the 50th anniversary of the executive order that made it legal to ban gays and lesbians from the military for 50 years thousands tens of thousands of gay men and lesbians have been driven out of the military given dishonorable discharges some Court marshaled disgraced in their families some had lobotomies performed on them literally we're still doing a th000 to 2,000 a year driving and being driven some of the best and brightest that our country has to offer are being driven out of the military simply millions and at cost of millions and millions of dollars with a stroke of a pin by Bill Clinton that will be over and we will be able to get on to things that will improve people's life not fight just repression it's such a difference it's true it's a difference I mean a positive agenda is a very different thing and I think we're we've been stuck not because we chose it but in a place where we needed to be fighting against against always against discrimination very difficult which is deploy to keep us from getting anywhere Norm we've been fighting for our lives I mean we've been fighting to try against a a government that hasn't given a darn about our community to just try to save people's lives and get dollars for treatment for AIDS and we can't even get get a quarter of the appropriation of the Ryan White Care Act that that has been authorized I mean so it's going to completely turn around well Tori something you said too was about House parties and money and the impact the other side of this is really the impact that our Community can have on the election and I know there's been a lot of money raised from this community there it's interesting in 1988 we raised about a quarter of a million dollars for Michael D caucus and that was considered on President by November 3rd of this year we will hit $ million uh Nationwide uh from the gay and lesbian community and that's identifiable lesbian and gay money uh you know that we know that we have copies of the checks we know where they came from Lord knows how much else is poured in from the direct mail and other ways into the campaign uh so I mean between the the Grassroots participation and the money we have made ourselves an intricate part of the American political process I mean I think it was one article front page article in the Washington Post that compared us now as a significant voting block like the American Jewish Community or the black community or the Hispanic community that has never happened before I think but I think it's also important that we that we understand that that we have to keep doing that we have to vote we have to send the T programs we have to get out there and talk about the issues because otherwise the lesbian and gay community is not going to be seen as having participated enough as having coasted along I mean you talk about the turnaround and I want to believe that and I want to see that happen but I also think that we've got to be out there and we've got to fight to make it happen and make sure that we don't drop the ball at any point let's talk about the Republican convention and the impact we certainly were omnipresent at these two conventions in very different ways um Tori maybe you'd like to start what do you think the impact of that convention was on America and on our community well I think that that the Republicans tried to declare this cultural war on us tried to make us the Willie Horton of this uh um campaign and I think they failed I me it's clear now that the that that it didn't work that there's been a backlash against it if anything it's kind of galvanized liberal support and non-gay support to our side and to our issues but I mean I don't know how other people felt but watching it was one of the most painful experience personal experience of sitting alone in my living room watching not one not two but seven different speeches every word of which you know had been approved by the Republican National Committee uh you know it it was it was this absolute message of hatred and you know the way that Pat Buchanan sort of lip curled up and his beady eyes I mean I feel like I was watching American Fascism and somebody said that Pat Bugan speech they said it was better than the original German and and and it was a you know it was a a comment meant in just but there was it was Terri terrifying was a terrifying Spectre of American popular fascism validated by the Republican party and the rightwing right up there and it was very scary but it didn't work it was a calculated risk and and thank goodness it didn't work so it didn't play didn't play in Peoria as they used to say what's interesting is is I think they miscalculated first of all how many of us have come out of the closet you know and it speaks very highly of coming out of the closet because when they attacked us so vigorously I mean the panan speech without a doubt goes down in convention history is the most despicable hate-filled divisive speech I think ever given at a national political convention what it did is not only impact us sitting here or the our friends in the community our brothers and sisters it impacted our parents my aunts and uncles my nieces got tears in their eyes in Denver because they knew they were talking about Uncle David you know it impacted the people we work with we go to school with and you know they might not approve of our lifestyle all the time or are the choices we make life or how we conduct our life but they don't want to see us persecuted they don't want us to see us be the new victims of the clan uh and so I mean that's why it didn't work but I think one of the reasons it didn't work is because we are out of the closet more and more of us and and so instead of people guessing saying well that's that abstract figure over there they're talking about this mystery unknown they were talking about my dad their family right but they also underestimated the the gay and lesbian vote they basically wrote that that vote off decided that it was either inconsequential numerically or decided that it didn't matter whether or not we were in fact going to support their platform and their party and they they are the ones the Republicans are the ones that came out of the closet as hate MERS and and not the and not the mainstream Republicans but the people who have grabbed leadership of the party today and that's really frightening that's it's it's terrifying as a member of both the African-American community and the gay lesbian Community it was I felt sort of sort of double double batter double assaulted and it was there was a kind of a Deja Vu because I expected there to be a Willie Horton element to this what are they going to try this time they didn't aim at this time at African-Americans they aimed it at lesbians and gays in 1988 to some extent it worked this time it didn't work at all the American public I think made it very very clear that it didn't work it wouldn't work work and that was not the way they wanted to hear a president or president's um backers talk let me ask you what it is exactly you think they misjudged because it seems like in backpedaling and talking about family values which we've heard a lot about uh everywhere in this campaign that they just it sounded like they wanted to soften a little bit but not take away from the message that our lifestyle really is wrong that it shouldn't be valued that it shouldn't be out there uh do you think it would have been people would have been as upset with it if it hadn't been so blatant so obvious so much sort of bashing do you know what I mean Tori well I think it's true I think most Americans like to think of themselves as fair and that in fact this rightwing that has steamrolled over State Republican parties and and the the National Convention is really out of touch I mean when 79% of the American people don't want us discriminated against even though only 50% uh approve of Our Lives um I think was the way the poll and the Newsweek poll was you know that most people don't want to hear that kind of rhetoric and they they are out of touch with M American people that isn't to say we don't have our work cut out for us in terms of more and more of us need to come out and more of more of us need to to share who we are with more people and we need to raise the Consciousness we've got work to do there's no question about it but Americans do not like to think of themselves as bigots and as fascists and the and and they misjudged they miscalculated how far they could push push that message they took the ultra rights message and tried to make it play in Mid America and it didn't go I think it also benefited though from from a factor that we haven't really talked about but that is really key here and that is that it that you know you've seen the signs um at various different campaigns it's about the economy stupid aimed at President Bush and I think that that we benefited from a kind of serendipitous uh uh preoccupation or concern with what are you going to do to make make my life and and and and the life of my parents and my children and the people I care about better in this country you haven't been doing anything thus far talk to me about that and instead what what spewed forth was hate you know you know what's interesting it's the generational difference George Bush if I bet if you asked him would say no I don't know of any gay or lesbian people I've never sit down with a gay or lesbian couple for dinner or or probably doesn't know any people who have died of AIDS or ever been by the bedside both Al Gore and Tipper Gore and Bill and Hillary Clinton have gay and lesbian friends have people they know of people who have died of AIDS they you know they they've went through our journey with us it's it's a clearly generational difference the reason they miscalculated at the Republican convention they've never taken time to get to know us they I think they are as stunned as anyone today about how powerful and sizable our vote is but you also said I mean it there's a couple of things in there David one is what you said before about how the more people come out the more everybody realizes they do know somebody you know who's who's lesbian or gay and so it personalizes that hatred almost to them and I think that that's I think that that's partially why that that effort at the Republican convention didn't work because most people are saying at this point wait a minute we do know lesbian and gay people they are our families they are people that we care about don't you if you're you're the odd people out if you don't know anybody that you you can care enough about to not want to see treated the way you're talking about treating fellow Americans and human beings and people who are involved in our lives the news week Paul shows 75 78% yeah either work somebody or know somebody who's gay so our families want to do what they want to do to us but they don't want anybody else to do it to us exactly but it was a calculated risk for them don't you think what do you think about the fact that some of the Republicans especially um President Bush and vice president Quail are now trying to distance themselves and saying well that's his point of view you know that's the the two paths they might believe that it's the most cynical awful kind of politics they preached the doctrine of hate there wasn't a speech that was given on that platform after 30 years of involvement in eight political conventions I can promise you every word of every speech was approved by the Republican National Committee before they got up on that platform and now they've read their polls and they real oops our hate didn't work and so now they're trying to be a gentler Cozier bigot you know and it's not going to work the American people Charles is right they want jobs they want the homeless to have homes they want daycare they want this country to be great again don't want to hear anymore of this hate and they don't want somebody saying don't look at all those things just look over in the corner at that whatever well you may think we four are here together talking about this alone but there's an extra person who's going to join us actually by the magic of tape uh San Francisco County Supervisor Roberta anenberg wasn't able to join us here today but I caught up with her recently uh in West Hollywood actually on the patio at little freda's and we discussed the prominent role that lesbian and gay rights played in both the Democratic and the Republican national conventions well Roberta as I don't have to tell you this is a pretty historic Democratic Convention this year um a lot of people were sort of amazed I think uh tuning in uh tell us why was this an important convention if it was for the gay and lesbian Community it was surprising to all of us who were openly gay and lesbian delegates to the Democratic National Convention that we would have such a position of prominence at the convention um as well as in the uh uh the minds and hearts of the media and of I think people across the country but also we had some presence I think in drafting the platform I know you were involved but we had a greater impact on the on the formulation of the platform and of the battle within the party to get the platform accepted as the as the governing document than we ever have before we were viewed as a very significant Force as I mentioned um I was appointed by Governor Clinton uh to be um on the drafting Committee of the of the platform uh there's only 15 people on the drafting committee and uh Clinton had eight nominees to that to that uh committee and um I I believe that he put me there knowing precisely what I would do lesbian and gay rights of course were spoken to in uh great detail for the first time we were not referred to in the platform by virtue of the term sexual orientation but it said right in the platform lesbian and gay it acknowledged the existence of homophobia in precisely that term uh and it committed the Democratic party not only to eradicating discrimination um but basically um supporting all of us in uh in our struggle um within society and it makes I mean it said in in obvious uh explicit detail that this is going to be the party that supports lesbian and gay rights we also had visibility of a type at the Republican convention in Houston maybe of a slightly different variety would you attribute that uh the attention that we got uh on that platform and in those speeches to the same sort of thing this growing political cloud in our visibility the kind of political power that we have helped to create I think has created a a counter Force perhaps equal uh in uh in weight to the force that uh we have exerted and persuaded others to exert in our behalf um the Republicans and their dwelling on this issue I mean they they had to dwell on their misogyny on their racism on their homophobia um sort of as a way of reassuring themselves not only securing their right-wing base but sort of reassuring themselves that they still existed uh and in doing so they sort of ended up underscoring us um instead of undercutting us which I think was a surprise to them certainly it took them two or 3 weeks to realize that it wasn't playing in P okay you haven't heard the half of it yet be sure not to leave us yet we'll be back with David mixner Tory Osborne and Charles Stewart in just a minute pick up your telephone right now and call the number on your screen find out how you can enrich your family values by learning about your gay children we had no idea what the gay community was like learn how these parents deal with their fears about attending parents flag meeting one of my biggest fears was that I would see someone that I knew call the telephone number on your screen right now and see how these parents have taken themselves to acceptance and Beyond because that parent does not know the positives yet about the gay community welcome back to get used to it well talking about both the conventions and sort of what we have been doing in the campaign what we can expect maybe from uh the campaign uh let's move a little bit more into the future supposing we do have an Administration elected that is a friendly one to us um do you think there's a danger in that in terms of some complacency in our community Charles yeah I do I think that there's a lot number one I think that the that the that the number one rule of politics is getting promises made kept and and uh we can be overly optimistic in assuming that in fact people will deliver on what they've promised us that may not happen it may very well be that uh that that once in office there will be other there will be other pressures there will be other priorities it will be our responsibility to keep feet to the fire that's why again it's so important that we go out we vote we be seen as a visible supportive group of people who who are dedicated to electing someone who will address our issues and our concerns but I don't think that we can at all rest in our Laurels number one I think success BRS its own kind of problems and number two other minority groups including African-Americans have also been adopted as um as part of the essential support group of various candidates Democratic candidates daating back to John Kennedy and to Franklin Delan Roosevelt and that has certainly not solved all problems it has created problems if anything the the um this election process in America and the Democratic party are have been in flight from issues that concern minorities that can happen to us as lesbians and gays unless we are both attentive and and and responsible in what we ask for and what we insist upon getting there's a kind of a luxury when you're on the outside there's a luxury of unity the community can come together you have people who who under a Clinton administration May well be facing Senate appointment you know a confirmation as appointees of a Clinton administration we're being arrested with act up when we're all together on the outside when we're all together against a you know the genocidal policies of a Reagan or a bush it's going to be very interesting to see what happens when the community is suddenly in a position where certain people possibly are going to get administration appointees where we're going to be sending resumés to David mixner to screen for for governor Clint for president then President Clinton to see and it's going to be interesting to see how we Face success how do we both build the movement on the outside and keep that pressure up and accept the power and the responsibility that comes with having access to well Tori it's been one of your main themes I know for years no seriously and a good one in one and I'm sure the task force board of directors was looking at this when they hired at you hired you was is this this Unity notion this notion that room for all but not necessarily in conflict or in trashing uh it seems like it's going to be even worse in essence with the ins and the outs and the people who are going to work in politics how do we avoid that I think it's going to force us to be incredibly mature and to to be it's going to force us to be much smarter and politically than we ever have been and it also is going to be um it's going to be exciting I mean I actually look at it as I think it's great when when mixner is in the White House and you know maybe Charles moves to I think it's going to be great um to have the kind of um increase in Role Models visibility the these appointments and this access to the president the AIDS policies are going to turn around the military ban and so forth because again I mean let's let us not forget I mean John Kennedy did not create the Civil Rights Movement but when he was elected it moved the Civil Rights Movement forward the Civil Rights Movement created the political opportunity for him to win and then he helped move it forward so there's this wonderful mixture of individuals and I mean even G lesbian individuals in this case and movements that change history and we're going to see it framed in a different way than all of us you know being arrested together on the outside and being angry at the guy who's who's uh you know against you know it's going to be interesting U it's going to start a whole new age for the game lesbian Community you know and and we all are going to be needed what we're talking about is diversity with respect that we respect each other's roles that we have to play uh we're going to have to keep Bill Clinton's feet to the fire uh some things were going to get very easily and some were going to have to educating he is after all the governor of Arkansas and didn't come out out of act up to be president of the United States so we're going to have to keep the difference is when we Tred to get into the White House before we were arrested this time we're going to be walking into the White House and we're going to be able to sit down and have a way and a vehicle to make our point so we'll be closer to his feet when we like that's right exactly closer to the feet and you know and and sometimes we might have to do stins and sometimes we're going to have to push our own leadership into uh to be more aggressive uh but the key I think to all of this and this is diversity with responsibility and with respect for the roles that we all have to pay the talents I offer are political Grassroots you know bringing in you know a broader Coalition and networking with other people we all have roles to play and we all have skills and talents we've been given uh you know act up as played a very important role in this presidential campaign and forcing us to focus at times when we driv you know sometimes we didn't want to focus but it was important that we do so you know so it's I think for the F we're just beginning I don't think the Bill Clinton presidency is the end of our problems I think it's the beginning of our journey into AC acceptance of responsibility and Power society as a whole the 60s began with Kennedy the 60s you know began with Kennedy the '90s are going to begin with Clinton and as we as I always like to say the 90s are going to make the 60s seem like the 50s so it's just the beginning you know when in the 1960 when the first black voter registered in Sunflower County in Mississippi in 1964 today Sunflower County has a majority of its supervisors who are black so that was just a beginning you know just the beginning I think it's also the beginning of the problems that we're going to face I think that and I think that that what we have to always bear in mind is that these are the kinds of problems we like the kinds of problems that come from access the kinds of problems that come from being from being in a room and arguing over fine points and how to implement an agenda rather than whether or not you're going to implement an agenda I think that the lesbian gay community is going to need incredible resources and is going to need to tap resources of maturity that we've that we've worked on and we've developed to some extent but they're going to become new there are all kinds of other groups and all kinds of issues that are going to need to be addressed I think it's going to be very important that we not simply can sign act up or any other group to um uh to to to banging on the door outside as you say in the event that we experience Victory they will have been a crucial part of that and it's not and it's not enough to say okay now we'll go inside the door we'll negotiate for you while you stay outside it was not acceptable before it won't be acceptable now I think and I think that that's an incredibly difficult kind of negotiation to work out because indeed some people have certain types of skills certain types of agendas and other people don't I think we're going to have to do the same thing with regard to other minority groups one of the things that I do hear in the African-American Community is that as any group including the lesbian gay community becomes more visible and its issues get get Front Burner then other groups who feel dispossessed who feel alienated naturally become concerned of as to whether or not they're going to be able to keep their scraps of the pie and that is going to be an issue that we're going to need all of our resources and all of our diversity in order to address so instead of the big tent we're going to have the big room I mean this is where in essence we got to cook a bigger pie and we got to make sure all of us get inside exactly it isn't sufficient to leave some of us outside you know and one of the things I think we should forget our op pressers are not going to go away with Bill Clinton being elected I think we will find that one of the things and and Bo I couldn't agree with you more and it's such a good point Charles uh that will bring us together and force us to recognize that and help us to bring us all in the door together or out of the door together whichever that door is going around which way is Roberto anenberg who you just heard spoke is a leading Contender to be a major appointment in a Clinton administration Jesse Helms Phil Graham Alan Simpson the same Lynch Mob that went after Anita Hill is going to go after her and uh as much as you know some of us would like to luxury you know of some of those fine points I think our oppressors once again are going to serve as an organizing tool to refocus us and say we are still an oppressed minority and if we don't take care of ourselves and each other you know uh then we're going to lose and the better we do the harder they push exactly I also think we ought to remember that even if the rightwing gets defeated in these heinous initiatives in Oregon and Colorado uh this November as Bill Clinton gets elected they are already planning to run them in Ohio and in several other states they they're not going to stop the right wing although it may temporarily get displaced from power at the top is not going to stop they they have a a mobilization the likes of which we've never seen in this country's history on the far right um and they're not going to stop so our battle in fact is going to be uh on several fronts it's going to be how to uh how to be sort of grow into a new level of maturity on the inside how to balance the sort of inside outside game how to make sure that the that the pie gets recooked so that there's a little more inclusiveness and the scarcity model gets maybe expanded a little bit and how and and gays and lesbians are in the middle of the griddle of this fight with the right wing and how are we going to continue to articulate um to fight that fight to organize against it at the same time as we're opening doors for a really let's face it a select few of our community to get on the inside it's it's going to be very interesting and I like to think that we have the resources the sort of spiritual and political resources kind of just forged from fighting AIDS and from 20 years of a movement we're not a new movement now after 20 years and we're a movement that's continued to grow and to reshape itself in the face of Shifting crises and I think we're up to the challenge but it's going to be one well something that all of you really talked about was a sort of a panoply of issues some of which you referred to as easy which is if we do have a Clinton White House maybe he's going to allow this or do this or the executive order maybe even the Civil Rights bill if we have one we'll be we'll get his his backing then there were other issues that weren't going to be so easy domestic partnership for instance the family issues that don't seem to play as well in the Newsweek poll or Peoria or wherever uh and that seems to be where pressure needs to be kept on because I it it seems I think something that you said Tori that it's we by keeping the pressure on we legitimate the requests in a sense there's a movement out there that was there for the election and it's going to be there uh after the election keeping up a kind of pressure testifying you know if we're moving into the legislative process of we want to uh domestic Partners somebody has to go there and testify about why this is right why it's like everybody else's family why we deserve the same protections that sort of thing so there'll be a lot of roles um the other thing when you said a a few uh who've been active or whatever are going to probably be the ones one of the things I'm not sure maybe you can correct me that we've done so well is the youth that you were talking about getting this experience getting not just door Todo raising money experience but what about the kind of experience that will allow us to have thousands of people ready to do all of these jobs uh on the local level and you know think we've been a training ground the last 20 years especially the last 10 years fighting AIDS I think we've been a training ground for exact I think we have so much less Med medocity than the non-gay world I have to tell you but I think we have so many people whose resumes mix is going to pass on to Clinton for all of these positions and all of these appointments I don't I don't really think that's that's going to be a problem I think the talent is there whether the people you know and the and we're going to be keeping mixner accountable too I mean there's you know there's a level at which this is going to be a most interesting uh process this taking of power and this accessing this presidential this new presidential uh political map I think Charles made a very valid point when he said we're going to have to hammer out the fine points of how we all work together with new responsibilities and New Visions new agendas uh we're going to have to learn new ways you know and and newness means the unknown and sometimes that generates fear and sometimes you know we're going to have to sit down and learn new ways to communicate with each other uh of it and and uh I'm just going to refer all those people who call for resume stor she'll be in Washington anyway and and she's already got me moved out of Angeles I'm not I kind of like it here the U but I think that that's really really important is that this is all new to us and we forget that once that executive order signs suddenly we're going to have captains in the military lieutenants in the military generals we have captains on in the military but they'll be out ex they'll be out and they'll be able to excel in their jobs openly you know and that's going to be a whole new role model for young gay and lesbian youth you know of uh we'll have our war heroes and of course that's what they've been afraid of we'll have our Colin pows we'll you know uh you know who you know and as an old pacifist that's hard happen it will still only happen provided that we get out and we vote and we make sure that Clinton and his supporters know we were there and we have a million people in Washington on April 25th okay talk about opportunities and I also want to talk to you about the downsides too when we come back don't go away [Music] I'm going to tr pleas me [Music] [Applause] please this is just one of the many parts you can play as a Young Red Cross volunteer volunteer and Play Your Part Kathy you must always remember that hitting is not acceptable you're bigger you're stronger don't hit whenever you feel yourself getting angry you take time out you know what time out is you cool off and keep yourself from doing something you're going to be sorry for later do you understand well do you take time out don't take it out on your child welcome back to get used to it we're talking about the election the impact on our gay and lesbian community and the impact of the community on the election uh so we've been talking a lot about uh Mr Clinton and his chances for success and how wonderful the Democratic Convention was so here we are in the last segment of the show and I want you to be really honest now what's the downside for us Clinton can't be a perfect candidate for the gay and lesbian community and there are some critiques maybe we should talk about the sodomy law in Arkansas uh AIDS funding let me start with you David because I'll bet you had to answer this before I've had to answer it and you know and there there's two levels that you have to look at it one Clinton's not perfect like I said he did not emerge out of act up he emerged out of the governor of Arkansas and we have education to do you know I mean it's sort of like Nixon going to China Clinton coming to the lesbian and gay community he can he can get away with it coming out of Arkansas uh you know in the sodomy laws I mean I think it's also the second aspect of is we got to have our facts right when he was attorney general he was the first attorney general in the history of Arkansas tocl clude to repeal of sodomy and a package to reform a whole set of laws that were Antiquated the legislature voted unanimously out of the package overnight uh the first time the next time the sodomy law repeal was put on into the legislature was this year from that unanimous rejection of it uh Clinton immediately endorsed a repeal of the sodomy law the legislature refused to appropriate funds for AIDS in Arkansas which has about 3 or 400 AIDS cases total in the State uh Clinton had had a Governor's fund discretionary fund and took the largest amount possible and allotted it to the Little Rock AIDS project uh him and uh Hillary both agreed to be co-chairs of the heartstrings fundraising event in Arkansas the man doesn't have an evil record doesn't have a bad record nor does he have a distinguished record like a sonus or brown you know and um it's important that as we understand the historical significance of what we're going through that we don't turn him into something that he isn't either as the alltime great evil or the alltime White Knight that's going to save us from everything possibly bad what he is is a man who's willing to meet us halfway to work with us to give us access to set us at the table you know who will work with us on through our Solutions he will not be perfect we will have many disagreements with this administration of time but that's okay our responsibility is to make it happen and uh so I think it's important that we keep it in perspective bottom line for me in this choice in the presidency Our Lives depend on it this election would determine whether people who are HIV positive have a greater chance of living or dying this election will determine for me where a woman will run the risk of going back into the alleys and having abortions performed or whether she will have the Dignity of her making her own choice and that's what this election is about for me it's a very clear-cut thing uh for me uh but to do that I don't have to make him perfect to vote for him nor do I have to make him evil to vote for him he is a good man who is making a real effort an Outreach to this community as the first nominee of our party in history to do so and to use the words openly in the convention I mean that was amazing and he's kept his promises to us so far well Charles how is uh how's Clinton playing in the communities in Senator Watson's district for instance well I think that that of course um uh the overwhelming majority of our district is African-American and uh the overwhelming majority of Voters uh in that District are and that's the community from which I come and what I hear about Clinton is is some ambivalence I hear that I believe I support his election um I believe that he's a lot better than the bush alternative I certainly believe he's a lot better than the parole alternative um and yet I think that for the most part he's a man who promise has not yet uh been called upon and he hasn't had an opportunity or much of an opportunity at least to deliver it I think that today what we've got are some promises we've got some good promises and that's more than we've gotten from a lot of other camp candidates but it's not the best it's not the most uh and I think that we're going to have to hold his feet to the fire and we're going to have to see how much of what is delivered is delivered stingly and how much of it is delivered um uh willingly I think that the man is sincere and that to me is a lot I think that he is that he is a candidate who um who has shown a willingness to respect individual freedom and that's incredibly important it's not enough we have more needs than that we have the ongoing war against AIDS we have to protect choice we have in the African-American Community we have enormous needs enormous issues and a rising sense of dissatisfaction and and the gulf between the races grows ever greater and they haven't really dealt with any of our local stuff yet I mean to some extent there hasn't been a lot of attention in California and even in in our La Community to talk about the aftermath of the uprising for instance emergency a didn't quite make it and federal funding we having some problems with which of course we can't blame on Clinton since it's until now he has he hasn't had the opportunity and I'm and I'm waiting for to see whether or not he's going to deliver upon it to deliver on the promises that have been made and I think that again it's so important that we be a visible supportive segment of his victory so that assuming that there is a victory so that we have the right to step to the four and say that we have been part of that Victory we believed in you and now we want to share in what that victory means if you're going to speaking of believing in you I want to ask Tori a question because well historically the the lesbian Community I won't forget to talk about that but historically the lesbian Community has been very disaffected about electoral politics I mean mostly the radical armed that said don't ever do that don't believe in that don't go that way stay in the street but even now I think it's sort of I see the the other half of the lesbian Community who doesn't want to be involved maybe doesn't want to be very out uh just wants to do family and you know whatever and uh do you how do we get them to work I see a little differently I mean I I think that the lesbian community's issues have not always been well identified or articulated by the broader G lesbian movement um but I think increasingly that's changing and those are a lot of those are issues around family gay marriage is is a very big issue in the lesbian Community domestic parnership parenting stepparent adoption all that kind of those kinds of issues I think those are beginning to change but I also think that part of the lesbian community's invisibility part of the pro the main problem with the lesbian Community is its invisibility and it so it kind of gets mythologized I think a lot of stuff gets thrown on uh the lesbian community that may or may not be a part of it what I see is I see in general that the American people and the lesbian Community is no different uh are pretty much fed up with politics as usual this is not a lesbian issue this is an American political problem we have a grave dissatisfaction in fact despair the the polls show you know increasingly fewer and fewer people participating in national elections increasing fewer and fewer people participating in local elections the polling place electoral politics has not until you know recently over the last 40 years been been decre in decreasing amounts been seen as a place where people infected feel empowered so I think that's changing although many people in in who are my political friends disagree with term limits I think it's a healthy infusion of some some changes um I think we're going to see a lot more gay men and lesbians and yes lesbians as well running for office I think this is healthy I think what you're going to see and again see I see Bill Clinton as a symptom um I see him as the beginning of the 90s you know and I look at the The General apathy that people feel it's it's a it's a cynicism it's a disconnection it's a feeling that we felt in the 60s we felt it we didn't think that electing people in office was what was going to save us we felt that we had to take it in our own hands and build broad-based social movements that would affect policy would affect those people who were elected it was rare to re for for me anyway is in the 60s and many people in my generation to really feel ownership of the political process this has now become American disease was it was a small percentage of sort of disenfranchised people so I know I'm straying from the lesbian question well not really but I want to hear if you think it's different too I think it's going to change this is what I feel so hopeful about I mean I recognize that Bill Clinton is not perfect but I see ordinary lesbians who have never been politically involved holding House Parties By The Hundreds I see them wanting to vote I see hope happening and when when expectations are raised is the beginning of great social change and that's what I think we're going to look at in the 90s and I think Anita Hills um torture was just as much of a big deal for lesbians as it was for straet women I mean we were we've all been sexually harassed doesn't me they don't go excuse me are you are you queer I'm not going to sexually harass you um so everybody was just incensed and it was galvanizing I think as well as choice for our community I I want to make a point you know sometime we have so we have to travel so far and we've been through so much we for get how much we've accomplished in very short period of time spins you know and if you want to know if we can trust Clinton if he's sincere which you know I agree with you he's very sincere all we have to do is look back to the last couple of months he's done some very courageous actions which be you know it's turned out okay for him but he didn't know that when he did them when he made the speech before the gay and lesbian community at the palace many people in the Democratic party told him not to do it if the Press was going to be present I mean he had a lot of pressure from you know traditional politicians in the party don't do that they'll make you the Willie Horton you know they Wily Horton I you and he came anyhow and he spoke to us anyhow fully aware that the Republicans were going to try to make lesbians and gazed to Willie Horton which they did the analysis was correct what was incorrect is that it didn't work right and didn't Hur he didn't know that and we didn't know that I had gay and lesbian people call and tell me don't let him come and will hurt him people from our own Community but he did how who Among Us can forget Bob hatto Roberta anenberg you know speaking before the convention well let me let me say I I could talk to you guys for another hour and a half and probably will while they're rolling the credits and afterward we'll we'll all go to dinner what the heck but we don't have enough time so what I'd like to ask is if each of you would take about a minute and uh do any kind of wrap-up statement that you'd like to uh cover anything we haven't covered or whatever and then we'll say good night Charles would you start sure um I think what we have to remember is that politics is the art of the possible and that means that you don't in a real world you don't get ideal choices and being an adult means you don't expect ideal choices it means that you look at your opportunities you look at the track record you look at the you look at the statistics you analyze what your what your interest is and you do the best you can and here we it's it's fairly clear where our interest lies certainly there are concerns I have about uh Clinton's record U there are concerns I have about the way that um that he's dealt with Jesse Jackson the sister Soldier things which I think were simply missteps but I think that there that there that the opportunity remains for there to be healing certainly he has reached out to the lesbian and gay community in ways we have to respond to and we have to support it's in our ball court and I think we have to do it tor well I guess the most important thing is is to recognize that this is the beginning of a new era of responsibility as well as of impact um and I just want people to to recognize that as that old Community organizer Saul Alinsky taught many of us uh each person no matter how not an activist has a direct sphere of influence of 200 people and if we call our friends and we call our old high school buddies and we call our parents and our sisters and brothers and all those people that we think might be lurking out there ready to votee for Bush for whatever reasons and talk about how important this is talk about that this is life and death for women and for people with AIDS we can we can make an absolutely historic impact and it's time for everybody to to to step up to that challenge David I think that never in our lives has the voting booth been more important to us as a community never really had we had much to go into the voting booth for as a community um I think it is the most important thing as a community we are about to do is to walk into that polling place and into that booth and and U vote this year not only for Bill Clinton but for Diane Feinstein and Barbara Boxer to give him the kind of Senate we need to make this happen and I think that lives are at stake a future is at stake the Supreme Court's at stake and the whole hopes and dreams of a future generation are at stake this is the most important election we have faced in decades in this country since maybe the first election of Franklin Roosevelt and we better understand it and vote thank you all very much there you have it it's uh the first edition of get used to it uh we know for sure there's going to be five more shows in the coming months and we hope that you'll stay with us and tell your friends to uh tune Us in because if this was an example of what you have coming it's going to be pretty good thank you very much and I have three things then to say to you the first is vote second is vote and the third you'll be not surprised to hear is vote good night [Music]