Canyon Cinema at 50 | Antonella Bonfanti, Betzy Bromberg, David Dinnell

[KJ Relth:] Thank you all so much for being here. Antonella came down from San Francisco this morning. David flew in from Washington, yesterday or today. And Betzy came all the way from nearby [laughs] to be here. What, what a beautiful and wonderful and I'm still kind of processing what I felt during that program, but I did kind of want to just as an icebreaker, ask each of you, what the idea of magic evokes for you? Like, if there's a word that comes to mind immediately? For me, like just watching this, I thought - it really made me feel how magical light can be. Which is such a like movie lover answer, maybe. [David Dinnell:] Maybe? Okay. Sorry all my answers, I think are like more movie lover answers, of light and time and mechanics, and all of that. But... [Relth:] If you don't have an answer, I would also just love to hear, kind of the moment when each of these four themes - if you remember when each of these themes started to emerge for you as you were going through the collection. [Dinnell:] Well, this was, I mean, I feel in some ways this is the most - well, it's probably like the kind of slowest and quietest of the four programs, but it's also one where the films kind of really spoke to each other in sort of pairs or maybe in, in threes at times. And I feel like that's kind of throughout this program which maybe lacks a more overt centralized kind of theme, but I feel like it's, it's kind of there. So even, you know, like starting the program in a sense with - which is kind of almost like two, two films that are sort of using almost like home movies, but then leads into, you know, I think even your film just not - just being one of the just very personal, very first person, you know, recording your life in, in a kind of very fragmentary and deeply inspired way. And then I feel like, you know, with Christopher Harris's film, with the, that was the stars with the, the sort of children's night-light star, this sort of just single in-camera, Bolex, single roll of film. You know, that's a film that he made for his daughter as well, so it kind of speaks back to the Standish Lawder cat film, and so on. And I just felt like these kind of, I was - it just found - these films found each other in that kind of sense. And, you know, I mean I was - in part like your - felt like your film Betzy like was, you know, I just felt like it was like a kind of key work in this program in many different ways. [Relth:] Yeah, I know it does, and I kind of want this to be more freeform, like, I don't really want to be asking all the questions. But, so if you have anything else to add please just jump in, but... But I guess I was kind of interested in knowing, Betzy, when the last time you watched that film was? [Betzy Bromberg:] I actually just saw it. It was probably three or four weeks ago at Anthology in New York, which was interesting because it was, much, much of it was shot about a block away. So, 40 years later, sort of being in a similar, in the same space was interesting. [Relth:] Does that bar still exist? [Bromberg:] I don't know. The bar is in Queens. They're not there- was that only shot in the Fiddle, Fiddle and Bow, is in Queens. And I have no idea. I've not gone out there since we filmed it, but a lot of it was shot on, in Third Street between First and Second. And the clubhouse, Hell's Angel Clubhouse, is still there and looking very different, but still there and still - yeah, it's changed a lot but interesting that it's there. Yeah. I thought there was a lot of magic. I'll just say, I'll jump into that one a little bit. One, I thought there was a lot of magic in how you cur- curated the films, and how they did resonate in really interesting ways back and forth. And I thought that was great. And, and just the sort of magic of filming your surroundings and, you know, the marks of time and how that resonates in time. [Dinnell:] The - so you mentioned your - it was a complete, like, career retrospective at Anthology's, like ten programs and, but this, this film, I mean, I think, maybe many of us, you know, we enter a filmmaker's work and then kind of, sort of work backwards and that was my experience with, with getting to know your work, but this was, you know, very exciting to, in many ways, too for me, it's a, it's very much a film of, you know, an arguably 1970s film in New York, but it also feels very contemporary and has a lot of resonance with the way that people are, I think, making sort of, kind of personal work nowadays. But I'm - you mentioned this is the second film? A second 16 millimeter film of yours? [Bromberg:] Second. Yeah. [Dinnell:] Yeah, I was this wondering if you could just say more of, like, you know, 40 years ago, late '70s New York. [Bromberg:] Yeah, I mean, I had made one film before, which was "Petit Mal". And then, one of the women in the film, I always want to say the redhead, but then I realized it's black and white and [laughs] you can't tell that she's a redhead. But, but one of the women in the film is a very close friend of mine and she was working in topless clubs for many years and had decided to do, to make a docudrama. And, that involved the clubs. So she needed an actress who would be able to understand what it was to be both in front of the screen and behind the screen and so she wanted me to end up acting in her film, which is called "Hustle of the Heart". And, that's really how I entered the world of topless bars at that time. And many of us were working there, but many female artists in, in the late '70s and early '80s did work in topless bars. I mean, I feel like that was a, a part of the feminist movement and a part of female empowering, so to speak. So it's, it's really, I don't think it's rare for that moment in time for women who were making work to be working within the sex industry in some way or another. But anyway, we - so she's the one who sort of got me a job at Fiddle and Bow, is the name of the club where it's filmed. And it was all shot in a weekend. It was - I was leaving New York. It was gonna be named "Ciao Bella" because I was leaving New York, and it was my goodbye film to New York. I'm from New York and grew up there. So, I was leaving for Los Angeles. So it was all shot in a weekend. And, and just sort of filmed everything that was a part, a meaningful part of my life at that time including all of our snakes in our apartment and, you know, it's just friends. Friends, close friends and lovers. So. [Relth:] What - so if it was named "Ciao Bella" because you're leaving New York, can you explain the, the other title? Like what was the inspiration for the other portion of the title? [Bromberg:] The other title, the other title, "Ciao Bella, or" - there was a saying in the bar, that was "fuck me dead or eat me alive." And I left the "eat me alive" out. [laughter] So I just left the "fuck me dead" in there. And I left that in there for a number of reasons. The biker in the film who is my lover when I shot the film, was shot in the head, in the neck, to be precise, and died after I had the footage. So the film was edited in Los Angeles. I had the footage. And the film that was originally intended is very much the film that also, I think, the film that it became in the end, but it is a different film than it was originally intended. [Relth:] And much like David - well for me, I encountered your work at a, for the first time at a REDCAT show pretty recently actually, when you showed "Glide of Transparency". And so seeing the - anyone else here who's familiar with your more recent work, there, there're actually interesting shades of it in some of the other pieces like the, the film that is responsible for the namesake of the program, "Studies in Natural Magic". I saw a lot of similarities there. I'm curious if you could talk a little bit about what you see as your evolution from "Ciao Bella" to the work that you're making today. And if there was a sort of turning point or if it was just a progression? [Bromberg:] I think it was really a progression. I mean, that's one of the films that I love, so I'm glad you mentioned that one. Charlotte Pryce's film. I think there was, you know, there's a clear evolution if you, if you watch the work I think. And there, there, there're places where you see shifts happening and an abstraction beginning somewhere along the way. And when I finished "Divinity Gratis", which was 1996, it was really - what happened was, I sort of had a clear moment of revelation that I knew how to make this type of collage film, mostly based on the real world and the exterior world. I knew how to shoot those pretty well and I knew how to construct them well. And I had a moment of just realizing that I needed to shift, I needed a radical shift in my filmmaking to feel that I was evolving and never want to be making the same work repeatedly. I won't - I see no reason for that and would - I'd be bored to death. And I think what happened was that I became... The early work is also very much about places of the interior. I mean, even though I'm shooting the real world and the exterior world, I'm much more interested in who we are inside and how we process and how we think, and how we see the world. And there was just a moment where I made a shift to creating worlds that were really of the interior, that were intimate interior landscapes. And, and these, in a way, are as well. Or the earlier work is as well, but there was a radical shift that happened where I became interested in feature-length abstract work that tried to, not recreate, but to give the space for an audience to live within an interior landscape including their own. I mean, I feel like you - those - the new pieces you, hopefully an audience is in their interior as well as in the film's interior. [Relth:] Yeah. The real, or the experience of watching one of your films, especially in a theater, is extremely emotional. And I, and I think that it's interesting the, the film we watched tonight is so, it's like a memory of a narrative almost. Like, I was just starting to kind of put all of these people into characters and their own sort of spaces and there's - it's just so rich for something that's, that's nine minutes. There's like a four minute or a four hour film in there somewhere. [Bromberg:] Yeah, and you guys caught that. I always say there's 13 minutes and you got the right length. [laughs] I guess, I like the number 13. I thought it was the right number for the film. So I always wrote, said it was 13 minutes. So I - you got the right number. [laughs] I was impressed. You know, for me, it's a film that, I realize when people watch it that it's a, it's a movie, right? That, I mean, that's what it is. That you're here, you're watching a movie. For me, it is, you know, it's a, it's very nostalgic and it's really a re-experience. And, you know, as time goes on, my relationship to it changes maybe a little, but but not all that much. But yeah, it's emotional. [Relth:] And so Antonella and Betzy, maybe the two of you could talk about how your relationship started as, as your work was brought to Canyon, or if Canyon approached you, or sort of how that relationship formed. [Antonella Bonfanti:] I came to know your work from - the moment I started working at Canyon Cinema. [laughs] And then, became familiar with you and your impact as an instructor and teacher at CalArts through the bookings that you would make... at Canyon Cinema! [laughs] And, and then often reflecting on, you know, you - the CalArts is one of Canyons biggest patrons and thinking about how the instructors choose to showcase certain works and how that is the best way for someone to be introduced to the collection. And, yeah, so I guess I'd like to know more about how you, how did you join in Canyon or what brought you to Canyon? And how do you use it today? [Bromberg:] I mean, when I started making films in, you know, this is, you know, the mid to late '70s, it was just a given that if you made a film it went - you gave it to Canyon to, you know, distribute, you know. And it was, it was based on such great concepts of, one, of being very democratic that there wasn't chosen, juried, you know, groups of films there. It was the filmmakers really, was the filmmakers' co-op so it was for, for film. You know, there was a great concept that somehow 16-millimeter could become, as I said, really democratic, that everybody could see it, that it was for the layperson, for the artists, for the, you know, for a museum, for any level. And it's ironic, honestly, that, that 16 millimeter and film and celluloid ended up being so incredibly expensive and in fact, it's totally not democratic. And it's, you know, it is interesting that it sort of turned out that way but... So it was kind of a given that you would, if you were a filmmaker, you would put your films into Canyon. I came to know the history of Canyon through Chick Strand. And so that was many years - it wasn't that many years later because she, she was ended up being a teacher of mine and then a very close friend. And I used to love to hear the stories. Endlessly wanted to hear her stories of, you know, working with Bruce and the two of them getting the sheet and just hanging it in the backyard and putting the posters all over San Francisco and Oakland and, you know, inviting people to come and see films and filmmakers to, you know, if they were in the San Francisco area, they would definitely show at Canyon. And that whole history was just incredibly poetic and beautiful. And there was Chick in living color, you know, telling the story. And, and I love the part where she would say, "Yeah, and, you know, Brakhage came and he showed his films and then, you know, finally after a period of time I thought, I can do this too. I want to make movies." You know, and then decided to, you know, become a filmmaker herself. And it was, you know, the whole, the poetry of the history of Canyon is amazing. You know, and it's great that you're here carrying that forward in such a wonderful way. [Relth:] I do want to keep this a little short 'cause we have a whole other program to get to after this. But, I wanted to give the audience a chance to ask any questions 'cause this is kind of a, a special opportunity. So is there anyone who has a question for Antonella or David or Betzy? Great... Oh! Right here on the aisle. [Man in audience:] Yeah, I have a question for Antonella, if you - it's great that you guys have been doing this extraordinary tour for the last few years. And I was wondering if you could just say a few words about where Canyon is at today? [Bonfanti:] Oh, that's a, it's a - thank you. It's... I still think of Canyon as being in a moment of transition. Trying to reconcile its staunchly format specific past with a possibly format agnostic future. [chuckles] I mean, as one, as one of the many questions that we think about at this moment. Like thinking about Canyon as a legacy orga-, as a... thinking, being, cognizant of the fact that people think of Canyon as a legacy collection, but actually understanding it as a vital contemporary collection as well. So we're doing what we can to try to figure out what the next 50 years can look like and we're doing that with a pretty modest staff and a, and a wonderfully energetic board of directors. And actually my colleague Seth Mitter is here, without which the tour and any of the Canyon Cinema 50 things would not have been possible. So, thanks Seth. Yeah. [light applause] Well deserved applause. So yeah, I'd say that we're in a moment of transition, but I'm actually quite hopeful for the future. Something that I've sort of neglected to say in the introduction is that in 2012 the membership actually voted to dissolve the co-operative and become a non-profit. And in 2014, we were awarded our 501c3. So we're actually now structured in a very traditional nonprofit way. And, and so that's another part of us considering our future. It's like well, we've survived and our exist because filmmakers support us. We must continue to keep that as part of our, as part of our core mission. At the same time, we also need to think about what, what audiences are out there and available for seeing the films. So it's a very much weighing pros and cons, weighing possibilities, trying to think about what are the most important parts of our past and carrying those into the future, and keeping them relevant. [Relth:] I'd love to know how many new... well, two questions - two-part question, I guess. How many new acquisitions you're getting a year? And also how actively you're courting those acquisitions, or if it's more makers coming to you asking to work with you? [Bonfanti:] Mm-hmm. We don't - we actually currently don't have an official collection policy. A lot of that, a lot of - with the transition from co-op to nonprofit, basically, we became a new institution, so kind of everything has to be reinvented. But we are actively, we, we are often approached by filmmakers and whenever possible we try to have them join the collection. And I'd say this past two years, I - the five years that I've been there we've seen a record number of new works come in. 200 new works? That a safe... That's safe. 200 new - thanks - new and I should, I should specify, new prints of older works. So it's a combination of like newly preserved films as well as new films. So. And new filmmakers. [Bromberg:] I was just gonna ask, in terms of - I mean, I should know this, I think, probably, being on the board of Canyon, but, in terms of - are you carrying both prints, files, DVDs, Blu-rays? I mean, like what's the range of format and how does that work? [Bonfanti:] I mean, it's mainly 16 millimeter and 35, Super-8, 8, but we also now are act- we do, though maybe not at the volume we would hope, distribute files. And we also have DVDs and Blu-rays for sale. So, yep. [Relth:] And all of this, by the way, your website is great, is a great resource for - their entire catalog is available online - is that safe to say? Yeah, and is very searchable and lots of rich images to accompany like every entry. It's really well built out. [Bonfanti:] Thanks. I'd also encourage you that on the back of your program notes, there's actually a little QR code, which I encourage you to take a picture with your photograph and join our mailing list. [laughs] [Relth:] I think we have time for just one more question. Berenice. The microphones coming, thanks. [Woman in audience:] How are the decisions made about what to restore and how, how much, how many, much resources to devote to restoration? And how do you raise the money and find the money? Or, you know, for that. [Bonfanti:] So, Canyon is not, is not actually engaged in actual preservation or restoration of any of the works. Any new preserved works that we received are coming from either the filmmaker or an archive engaged in that activity. Through Canyon Cinema 50, we were able in a kind of pilot project, able to raise some money to make new prints and the way that we decided we could make those - that limited amount of money go the furthest was to actually work with films that already had printing negatives available, either preservation printing negatives or just, you know, good printing negatives from the filmmakers. I took us a really long time to make the decision on how, 'cause it's, you know, you don't want to be, you don't want to play favorite and you also want to think about this kind of, in the framework of the 50th. How is it most relevant? And also, the idea being that these new prints would then go into circulation as better, fresher copies of, you know, like, a Sea works [?] in some cases. In other cases, newer works. So actually the tour really informed our priorities for the new prints as well as [...] which we made, we focused on Chick Strand and actually made, I think, five new prints of her works because up until then, we were distributing, you know, not in every case, but in many cases, like vintage reversal prints and it just didn't seem sustainable anymore. [laughs] So and, you know, Academy made beautiful restorations, and we were with the, with the permission and blessing of the estate able to make these new prints. So. And I should - actually, I would be remiss to not thank the Academy and Mark Toscano for all of the help that he gave us throughout the entire CC 50 project. [Relth:] In great segue, Mark Toscano's film is the first one in the next program. [laughs] Unfortunately, he couldn't be here tonight. He's in Korea, I think. But is - I would love to - David if you wanted to say anything about "Associations" before we take a little intermission and then go in to the next one. [Dinnell:] Yeah, I think I - like I mentioned earlier there's a, it was just like a starting point of a couple films that including John Smith's "Associations", Mark's film, and the... "What Is a Man?". Just that this kind of starting point of just interest in language and that's... Yeah, and it just goes from there. [laughter] And it ends with, it, it ends in a very different place in some ways with Richard Myers' film called "Akbar" from 1970. Richard Myers, who was fairly young when he made this and he was teaching in, in Ohio and this is, I think, a, a former student of his or maybe even a current student of his that he's just interviewing. And this is a film that is also like one of these that we're - just a sort of recent, relatively recent preservation that Mark Toscano had worked on through the Academy Film Archive too. So. [Relth:] Well, thank you for your beautiful curation, David. Thank you for your beautiful film, Betzy. And for making this all possible, thank you Antonella.