Books on Trial:The Rising Sun in the Pacific

I'm Corinthian is called an ironic tale by its author Herbert Kobe you will see his name on books on play bills on television and on the chasis of some of your own farm machinery and tonight you will meet Herbert Kobe on books on trial dr. David Gruber of the Iowa State College Department of English and speech is again your hope good evening this evening we have I think a real treat in store for us and we're going to depart a little bit from our usual procedure dr. Leonard Feinberg the Department of English and speech at the Iowa State College and a specialist in the study of satire that's right isn't it Lynn and I are going to have the pleasure of talking with an offer about his book the book the blonde Parenti the author Herbert Dean Colby who has been good enough to come to us this evening and discuss the book and I presume many other things with it is that correct there your pleasure thank you the blurbs on the jacket of his book describe Herbert Kobe as a young writer of talent and imagination I'm sure we can vouch for that graduate of Harvard he has been at various times factory worker a salesman and a playwright I might say simultaneously I'm talking with mr. Kobe earlier this evening I learned that in addition to the play Exodus which was produced in a New York in 1948 nine like that and another play called stranger in the Hills an Irish play this mr. colbey tell he was translated into Spanish and played in Cuba he is at present engage in adapting the booked under discussion tonight with blonde Corinthian Burroughs a Farrar who will act in it in New York next year in addition is doing an adaptation of Zola's gnana which I understand mr. wallam a she is going to take part in your traveling very high company in addition to that he is at present engaged in writing a novel on the Agamemnon story and tells us that his interest isn't in the children the story goes downhill after the man and life story what is the particular angle and that man and wife story that you record relationship with a husband and wife and something which this to understand the eggmanland story has been done several times O'Neil did a beautiful job on it and Robertson Jefferson's also did they left out some one thing that's been very interesting to me that Agamemnon first of all was in love with Helen and Helen turned him down for Menelaus who she eventually married then AG memnon married her sister quite a minister later in life after they'd had a family lived reasonably happy together and he went off to Troy to rescue his first love say well that certainly is worthy of development in addition to this mr. Colby is a farmer a designer of farm implements much in the manner of his friend Louis brownfield who has written the introduction back to this book also he is the author of some articles and two books a history of truck the trip industry my faretta took in this vision and a farm machinery that's well a little bit about the book which this incredible a gentleman has produced it is called an ironic tape perhaps the word tale needs a little explanation it isn't precisely a story it is a tale that means of course that there is an emphasis on plot not a concern with by Newt involutions of the human mind as the characters are delineated to you action moves over a long area the story is in a framework it begins with the old philosopher and the pupil and the philosopher sends the pupil out on the quest of the answer the great answer the philosopher tells the pupil he may find the answer and where the pupil decides to find the answer in the city because he likes it in the city soon he has good reason to like it in city in form of a blonde Corinthian whom he follows to her oppose smitten each with the other he begged leave to enter the house with the old woman who guards the door asks for money but having a soft part and also working on the philosophy that a broken heart belongs in everyone's life Fighting's the young man is permitted to enter the next night no go fill your purse with money the peregrinations follow I'm not going to try to describe him now ultimately fides comes back many years later having seen quite a number of persons he comes to the temple but this time the old woman says no there's no blond Corinthian here well of course you have guessed the blond Corinthian is now at the door she too had a young man who had once gone away meanwhile it's an epilogue the philosopher has been sleeping on the hillside wakes up and says Eureka I have the answer for the great question but unfortunately there's nobody there to hear it and so he goes to sleep again well no and what do we want to quiz mr. Kobe about what do we want to start well herb is such a versatile individual difficult to tell where to start you name some of the great moderns with whom he's associated I'm going to name some of the great books with which we might associate his book for purposes of comparison first I think we ought to point out that there have been great that there is written doing in a manner of speaking the same thing that mr. Kobe has done in his blue ass at there of a man looking for the truth and for happiness Voltaire did it in Candide Johnson did it and restless in a sense Jonathan Swift did it in Gulliver's Travels and others have done it what I'd like to ask you at the start herb is what is it that your book does that these people haven't done what is it that's new in your contribution I don't know if there's anything especially new is certainly not in technique I was deliberately choosing an age-old technique of the storyteller a technique that's older than Genesis this is over Z so the only thing perhaps that could be regarded as new in the satire I am satirizing modern countries such as France and Russia and modern morals if they've changed any I'm not sure they that would be the only thing I have in mind I realize the book has been compared often to Voltaire's Candide I wasn't conscious of that when I was writing it I thought a bit more well closer really to the storytelling a Sholem Aleichem in the sense that it tells a Moro with perhaps a little satirical humor well if that's your intention if it's the moral suppose we shift to this point the conclusion of Europe look the moral as gives the moral of Candide and Gulliver and restless is quite pessimistic the suggestion is that man's lot on earth is not a happy one I noticed you rephrase the famous Greek statement call no man happy until he did which is not especially cheerful point of view and there are a number of rather satiric comments man's possibilities for happiness but I'd like to ask you now since we have you on the griddle is is that pessimistic point of view your own personal philosophy or is it something was useful for the writing of your book you realize of course that's a tough question that's why I'm glad you did I suppose I've never really examined it subjectively I think probably it is my own personal feeling the essence of what I'm what I meant to say was we pay in like an exact proportion to our ambition early in the book the old woman tells him one part of the truth he was searching for in which she said if you expect nothing from life you'll get that expect more than nothing you'll get less and what she's telling him and essences stay home with this lovely little blonde Alex used to playing all over the world you know this is happiness within the limits of what we can have the only thing I wonder about whenever I do talk about my book is it always sounds so much different then it reads I would imagine that people listening to this would have a feeling now we're dealing with it rather rather complicated book and actually I think your degree is simply written to the point of being naive yes that I think we ought to admit it the status is a beautifully pure book the style is very simple it's almost biblical in its simplicity there is no attempt that and that's part of esoteric symbolism or confusion it's told about it simply as a story can be told but as long as you brought in the beautiful little blonde her blood let's take care of her next now a good deal of the interest in this book as the cameraman indicated before we began depends on sex there is a good deal of rather passionate activity throughout this book now are you suggesting in the book that sex is comes closest to giving the truth of life or are you using it as a gimmick a device to get the readers interest and I can't really come to this too much you know we've got me trapped a bit here I'll get back to one thing you mentioned there yeah in the in regard to the style you mentioned the word biblical and I'm rather glad you did because I had it in mind it seemed to me that I have one of the reasons I wrote this book reeled it the way I did and as short as I did is it was something of a revolt with me against the long books that were well-made predigested gave no room for their audience to think or provoke no ideas and very often said little now I want to get in the quarrel with the other authors who do that sort of thing many of them do it very well with real artistry but I've always been a little bit partial to the simpler type of writing such as the writing in Genesis do you remember how Genesis begins in the beginning God created heaven in the earth well if you give a southern novel that theme the creation of heaven and earth that's 20 volumes you know before having an earth God created well I was trying to go back to the old oral type of storytelling look you're if you're telling the story story orally you can't do very much about stream of conscience you know you can't get involved in that trap you have to tell the story all right well I'll grant you that you want to get back to the blast I'll now bring you back less painfully let's put it this way is it your intention to suggest in the book that love comes house to be one of the great truth I'm an awful romantic I suppose I I insisted as I suppose every reader of your book will insist yes you know what the philosopher would say if anybody had been there listened and that was my answer is that the correct answer or is that the kind of question I have no business asking the author of an erratic veil it had to me that the philosopher was look that makes life worth living in but he finds people were not about to hear it and so the back asleep yes that's right so my idea there is many people aren't capable of love of any kind and many of them who have it don't recognize it and if a fairer more that occurs in this book is is an expression of their love into this very naive character this Don Quixote type of character it's a finest expression so at that moment he is happy and now to recapture that have he thinks he can pass this along to everyone else well that's quite a trick anybody has in mind of course our boy gets involved along the way with other friends yes and he's a little he's a little Felicia no I don't mind finishing a for instance the point I was making when he became involved with others he could have been happy with him awesome but he insisted on being unhappy by assuming he couldn't you see if he just stopped a little while longer with the young widow I think he had to found the same kind of truth that he did with the blonde well let's approach it this way now a moment ago I asked you whether the pessimism the book was your own or it was an author's penny authors and the reason I asked that was it you've clearly impressed dayavan media genial and pleasant individual happily married father a businessman and working hard what does miss do you have claiming in your book that life is so beautiful and frustrating well here you are a picture of health and good food in other words the way I live is contradictory to it but I say I believe asking ok well give me a let me give him an assist on that yeah what you care to explain why I reacted as I did okay well I if I were to describe your book in a single term I would say it is a charming story now that isn't reflecting pessimism it isn't also I hope reflecting obtuseness on my part is that your intention to make this not light satire so much as a a charming picture yes I'm not above telling the story and I'm not above entertaining my audience which a large group of body our author since 1920 seems would like to avoid in the the name of art I was trying to entertain deliberately that I was trying to do I don't like to bore people and that's why I wrote the book in this way it is if you if you're if you are concerned about how I feel I will say this this is a subjective emotional expression the book is on my part one of the things I learned very recently as I was living a happy life while I wasn't completely aware of it now that boy in that book had a terrific life he traveled all over he had a wonderful time but he went through it all not knowingly in other words it's a blue bird again which is still an honest and a fairly truthful expression how about the foolish sailor he fascinated me in the book as a story develops findings finds the foolish sailor and a boat which is patched up not very well the foolish sailor a Sun worshipper enthusiastic capable of sailing a boat which leaks but well which won't leak because he doesn't think at least I suppose what did you intend by the foolish sailor that seems as though you liked him pretty much as he were presenting a point of view you're trying to sell whatever whatever I say in the book I say through him and I used that type of character deliberately at this point I think it could be called a trick the use of a fool on stage for instance is always gives the author more room for expression for instance a fool and Leary all through the play is telling the truth during the play people would only listen to him but because he's a fool they don't listen consequently he has room to say more you see and see this is a story of Socrates again as long as he was regarded as a fool he was free to do what he wanted as soon as he became recognized as a philosopher he was assassinated you see so in the guise of a fool you can say a lot of things on stage or in a book that you couldn't say any other way and gives you more freedom I think you know that I think you've done that and I think we might point out at this point you're obviously not in a position to do so that you do entertain this book has some charming passages when you show the difference between the tyranny of one dictatorship and the tyranny of another dictatorship then why don't you sketch that out on our this Fridays and the foolish sailor land in a country where people are being assassinated by dictatorial ruler and his army they're immediately thrown into jail with a revolutionary and they spend about ten years there at the end of that time there is a revolution revolutionaries get out with them and immediately afterwards kill the previous rulers and throw our friends in jail for another 10 years on be the same charges except deeper down in the dungeon than they had been there's a good deal of that kind of charming satire and irony but I want to shift now to more serious discussion of the philosophy that I think you clearly expressed through the foolish sailor and that is this you have your sailors say the world will not be improved by political means by economic change by religious revivals it will only be improved by each individual man developing his own personality do you want to defend that completely do it proves what I say that the climb up this the time up to civilization is meticulously slow and it's it's dependent on the individual rather than on a political system or any other social system or any religious system all of those can be of assistance in generally their expressions of the individual that is the individual advances in civilization develops a better political system you see but the system alone doesn't free us from the general would you suggest then that under fascism no I see what you're getting it no and I don't think the fascism is the natural expression today of the advance we have made and that's why fascism defeats itself that's why communism is bound to defeat itself it is not the net we have gone too far it can't exist it can't coexist with the people that are living on this earth today see I don't believe that you can is I don't believe there can be as much freedom of expression naturally under fascism is there can be under democracy and I believe that the people today are ready for democracy they have democracy and when they don't have it eventually they will that it's a temporary thing what fascism and communism you wouldn't want to make it a blanket statement and that the external forces of environment have no effect at all No what I say is this you'll if you expect too much from a system if you expect a system to cure all our evils as we did in the 19th century the great century of reason you're bound to run into dissolution you see now there's a way of being happy by seeing the system for what it is and what it can do and not expect too much from human beings or systems or what to just keep our little progress up as fast as we can and don't expect any great revolution to change things overnight and is that the character of Solon in your book yes it is and which would you care to sketch that it just sketch out briefly first well that Solon was a great logger if giver in Greece and these two men are sailing around the Mediterranean and they come near Athens I've invented the scene of course didn't actually occur in history we have the picture stolen being chased through the streets by the crowd now actually so when was the exiled from Greece and he was a very great girl we're in a very good ruler but he brought too much good to his people and they couldn't stand too much prosperity so we have this scene of his being chased through the streets and finally he jumps into the water and swims out to this little boat and they pull him aboard and they begin there and they continue their ventures rather with Solon in their company they end up in the land of precious that's Lydia and he was supposedly the richest man in the world and creatures Krisha split the question to him after showing him all his wealth and his harem the other things that make men happy who's a happiest man in the world and Solon answers as he historically did answer you can't crown the wrestler still in the ring you'll never know if a man's happy to lose life is over and Solon and critius rather feel this is very foolish not to take present happiness into the belt and the end of the story proves it at the moral that Solon was right but you can't judge your happiness for what you have presently as long as you've come to the end of the story in your discussion suppose we asked this purpose like I suppose you're aware the fact that the end of your story is almost the same as the end of Candide and restless and the others and the end is always a frustrating yeah boys learn at the end that there's no future not that I think if I were trying to teach anything and I'm aware of the fact I'm trying to teach I'm trying to teach patients not to expect too much this young this boy standard dedicated a life towards solving something that could be done in the lifetime that he had just been patient and stated upon Corinthian and done what little he could do in his Serco why he had contributed towards advance of civilization and the step towards eternal happiness in other words eternal happiness I don't say it's impossible I just say it's impossible to do it quickly and those who expect to do it quickly very often do more damage than they do good my case swelling can be said at the end this is all very well but let us cultivate ok would agree with that let us come a bit of guy especially never that way you'd want to repeat that matter of fact the publisher left a page out of my book which was the first page and I had that quotation from Voltaire that the kid I always wondering when you're talking about Solan whether you would be willing to accept a position of another contemporary writer for whom I think both Glen and I have a good deal respect I'll cap and his invention of the SH moon they're too good for people they're the world's not ready for this move they were not ready for this move well perhaps we could move on to this question or I think our audience would be very interested in it you're going to dramatize this play hit this story our table have you any plans for a change to make it dramatic or how does it break itself down it's written in a good bit the optical technique the advantage of the optical technique is this you can't bore an audience in the theater yeah if you write a novel and you have to be boring chapters they can be skipped you know but in the theater if you lose your audience for a scene you've lost the play they leave they don't come back you got a flat I think so it's a very demanding kind of writing and this since my first training is in the theatre it is written in theatrical technique which means the RL tale is spoken tale and it's not difficult to dramatize it's a little hard to explain since I'm sure a large part of your audience hasn't the book yeah yes that would be nice but I expect there will be some changes yes not too many not flat wise I can't use all the book in the play I must select certain sections for gravitas well I hope you don't I hope you don't scrap that meeting with they fully slaver know that although it's a small scene and it's relatively speaking let's keep reading time with thee in the land of the dictators huh I'd hate to lose a piece to put a character are you going to keep stirring you're blind God of wealth who passes it how the money always to the wrong people and you're going to keep insisting on the idea that the best thing man can have is poverty because only poverty keeps us honest and striving well I think you realize I didn't really mean that when this young man finally comes to a place where he has a chance to cure the God of wealth of his blindness so that the just people in the world can have the well and he meets the goddess of poverty and she explains to him that would wreck civilization since everything good the world's done by the poor when he does leave her why she's and she's won the argument with his simple naive character she says well I'll always win as long as men think themself reasonable reasonable and have no confidence in their fellow men you see I really do believe that just people the world should be should have the will and you really believe they don't I believe it's very hard for them to get it the kind of reply that I think that you may expect frequently in the book the blonde Corinthian well her by I hate very much to stop this show but I've just been given the signal that our time is just about out we have a duty to our audience for next week's joke thank you very much Herbert Colby and the best wishes for your many projects and for the success of this in play form and thank you for coming thank you land Feinberg thank you next week we're going to do the naked in the debt by Norman Mailer to do that we will have major TN Greene the Iowa State College and dick Hartzell from the adult education foundation here at the Iowa State College the naked and the dead by Norman Mailer is a book which is caused considerable fog perhaps the largest I'm not sure but I think perhaps the largest of the war novels one which has endured now a couple of years is a little more than a war novel and which I trust many of you know if not a first hand at least by review I look forward to seeing you again next week thank you very much dr. David Brunner dr. Leonard Feinberg of Iowa State College and Herbert Kobe of guillain Ohio have discussed mr. Kobe's new novel the blond Corinthian Charles Hawley was technical director and Neil Mahler produced and directed tonight's edition of books on trial this is Fred Dravid inviting you to join us next Tuesday at 8:30